Sparring Thoughts

[FearlessFreep]

Only having limited experience in TKD and not much in anything else, nonetheless, I had some thoughts

1) Has anyone ever thought that olympic rules TKD sparring could actually apply to other striking arts as well? Basically, each opponent has legal scoring areas and you get points for hitting those areas, with hand or foot. Would this work for other arts as well? Would it be possible to have a mixed-art competition between someone from a TKD background and someone from another striking discipline, using basic TKD rules?

2) In another thread I speculated that one reason TKD seems to be looked down upon in some MMA tournaments is because TKD sparring rules encourgae a style of strategy and therefore training that is at odds with how most MMA tournaments seemed to be geared. Has anyone thought of tried to develop a set of TKD sparring rules that would be more geared toward combat-like situations? TKD seems more like olympic boxing, where you get points for hitting target areas. How about something where you go until you beat your opponent either by KO or by judgement that you fought better? More like pro-boxing? I think this would encourage harder hitting as you try to wear down your opponent and not just score on them but try to make it hard for them to score on you or block you. It would encourage training to kick *hard* and take hard poundings. I think would lead to TKD stylists better equiped for MMA events (and also such sparring training would actually better prepare someone for real self-defense)

 

[dubljay]

Only having limited experience in TKD and not much in anything else, nonetheless, I had some thoughts

1) Has anyone ever thought that olympic rules TKD sparring could actually apply to other striking arts as well? Basically, each opponent has legal scoring areas and you get points for hitting those areas, with hand or foot. Would this work for other arts as well? Would it be possible to have a mixed-art competition between someone from a TKD background and someone from another striking discipline, using basic TKD rules?

Perhaps I am not seeing the whole idea you are tying to present, but this sounds like standard rules for open tournaments. Targest and level of contact vary between trounaments, but still the same idea.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Perhaps I am not seeing the whole idea you are tying to present, but this sounds like standard rules for open tournaments. Targest and level of contact vary between trounaments, but still the same idea.

Perhaps it is. I'm not familiar enough with tournaments to know if there were mixed art tournaments where people from different striking arts would compete against each other using the same rules

 

[dubljay]

There are plenty of open style tournaments (atleast here in California). Try looking up GSKA (golden state karate association) or NASKA or ISKA to review their point sparring rules and see if those fit your ideas.

-Josh-

 

[Marginal]

K1 fits in with the idea of TKD with less target restrictions and full contact as well. There are plenty of open tournaments that offer the possibility.

 

[TigerWoman]

It depends on what people want from tournament sparring. Our open tournaments include punching, hand technique, but not to the face. Strikes to the body must visibly knock back not just a light touch. But light touch to the head. We use full sparring gear though. Control is emphasized. In contrast, there is also a tournament in the cities, MPLS/St.Paul which notoriously has two or three ambulance calls and it is only TKD. We have had our students injured there so we don't go anymore. So, it's whatever you want, possible debilitating injury or fun practice. Both give experience. TW

 

[TX_BB]

There is nothing stopping anyone from competing at any of the US national opens at either Jr. or Sr. level with the exception of the Black Belt division now. To enter Black belt division you still need a Kukikwon certificate 1st Dan or better.

If you go the realm of changing the rules, here are two problems that would you would have to be overcome:

You tend to lose the kicking (see PKA, PKC and generally most Karate systems who have had to institutue kick counts).

Each venue has it's inherit advantages/disadvantages a ring, octagon or open floor and changes the footwork pretty dramatically.

 

[Marginal]

Somehow I doubt that allowing hand strikes to score would totally warp things. They've managed just fine in the ITF etc so far.

 

[Zepp]

1.) Yup, yup, and yup.

2.) It's been done. In days long past, many TKD schools used light-contact rules that allowed for a larger variety of attacks, including hand attacks to the head. The ITF today uses different full-contact rules that allow for punches to the head.

As has been mentioned, there are several major open-style kickboxing organizations where someone trained in TKD can use their skills.

I seem to remember a thread from a little while ago where it was mentioned that the WTF was debating some rule changes, one of which involves allowing punches to the head. Lemme see if I can find the link.

Aha! Found it:http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20385

 

[TX_BB]

Somehow I doubt that allowing hand strikes to score would totally warp things. They've managed just fine in the ITF etc so far.

Here's my problem, off the top of my head you would need to change at least 5 rules.

1) Hand strike to head - illegal to legal
2) Covering of hand with glove (unless you like bare knukle).
3) Pushing rules would need to be changed unless closed fist punch was the only technique allowed.
4) Holding rules would need to be lossened to allow hook punching in tight situations.
5) Referee's would need to score punches.

My guess is that USA Taekwondo participants throw from 95-97% foot techniques to 3-5% hand techniques. The inclusion of hand techniques would get many competitors to add jabs, crosses and backfist to their repitoire.

I've practiced in both WTF and ITF systems and yes they are different. I like the continuous fighting method and electronic scoring systems of the WTF. The reason I took up TKD was to learn to use my feet so I really don't have a problem with the current rules(including kick to the opponents back).

 

[FearlessFreep]

Thanks for all the feedback on what's really out there in the world of TKD sparring.

 

[Spookey]

Dear all,

A comment was made just a few posts prior to this regarding head punching working in the "ITF, ect"...

First of all I am the son of the sixty-sixth person to be promoted to International Instructor by Gen. Choi. I am an advocate of the Chang Hon TKD system and a lifelong practitioner.

That being said, all the video I have seen of the 2004 ITF Worlds (South Korea) were HORRIBLE. I have seen more clean techniue at toughguy contests at Flea Markets!

One rule commonly used to stop such ugly expressions of TKD refers to clean technique. Some tournaments only score based on clean technique...not some lucky tag delivered during a spamsic seizure!

TAEKWON!
Spookey

 

[Miles]

....
That being said, all the video I have seen of the 2004 ITF Worlds (South Korea) were HORRIBLE. I have seen more clean techniue at toughguy contests at Flea Markets!

One rule commonly used to stop such ugly expressions of TKD refers to clean technique. Some tournaments only score based on clean technique...not some lucky tag delivered during a spamsic seizure! Spookey

Spookey, were both hand AND foot techniques horrible in the recent ITF World Championships? Why do you think that would be? Are there any contemplated changes in the rules as a result?

I agree that only clean techniques should score-this is hammered home at every referee course I've ever attended.

There is a continuum though in USAT (fka USTU) sparring so that the kicks to the head would not require the same degree of impact as those delivered to the body. Head kicks require more accuracy so less impact-kicks to the body require more impact and less accuracy (i.e. need to be on the hogu and delivered with that part of the foot below the ankle). That's one of the reasons you see the different hogu now with solid bands instead of the circles.

Miles

 

[Jim Tindell]

Some tournaments I have went to have both a WTF division and a "Full-Contact" division, where controlled hand strikes to the head are allowed.

 

[Spookey]

To Who it may concern,

I will try and post a link for all to see regarding the level of technique demonstrated on the clips I have seen from the ITF Worlds (SK).

There were some clean kicking techniques, and the scoring was some what based on clean technique. The problem lies in the most ugly exchanges (think "Rock em Sock em Robots") prior to one accidentally on purpose turning kick that the judges must have been amazed by based on all other technique displayed!

TAEKWON!
Spookey