Usefullness of sparring

Gerry Seymour

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I agree with most of what has been said already. But I did have some additional things to consider.

1. Study the rules you are using in your sparring. One of the important things they will tell you is: What you are not practicing. This is important. If you are doing stand up striking, you are not practicing take down defense and you are not practicing ground fighting. If you are doing Judo style randori, you are not practicing punches and kicks. Some places that do stand up striking, don't let you hit to the head, which means you are not practicing targeting the head, nor are you practicing protecting your head. Once you learn what you are not practicing in your form of sparring, you at least know the holes you need to work on. You can change your sparring rules, find outside sparring opportunities, work on drills... Further, when you find something that works for you in sparring, you need to find out if it works because of the rules. If you are not allowed to strike to the head... and you find a way to consistently land a combo on the other guys, you need to figure out if that same combo works when the other guy can snap your head back with a jab. Are you only able to get that choke, when the other guy has no gi on? Are you only able to break out of the clinch because the other guy is not allowed to use a double leg take down? This does not mean your sparring is bad. This means you need to understand what your sparring actually is.

2. This was already stated here before, but I want to reiterate. Sparring is not about winning. Sparring is about practice and learning. When it is about winning, you start relying only on your go to, tried and true techniques... because you want to win. But, if you can keep it about learning and practice... then you are free to work on the things you are not so good at, so that they become better. If a drill is taught that day before sparring... use that drill in your sparring. If the other guy gets you with something, try to get him with it. It might not work (probably won't) but you will get to see how they defend it, and you will have something new to work on... eventually you may get it. If you are bad at a certain aspect, put your self in a position to work on that. (maybe you have a hard time getting out of side control... get yourself in a position to practice your escapes over and over again)

3. What else can you work on while sparring? Its more than just the techniques. If you are in a ring... can you keep your opponent in the corner? Can you pick which corner? If there are multiple pairs sparring at the same time, can you be aware of where everyone else is on the floor? Are you the one bumping into the other pair or can you make it so that your partner is the one bumping into everyone else? Can you keep yourself closer to the weapons on the wall than your opponent? There are a lot of things you can work on while sparring, beyond just: Can I land this punch?
Just one adjustment I'd suggest to #2: sparring can be about winning, but it shouldn't always be about winning. Sometimes, the best benefit is when the other guy is using his best stuff to stop your best stuff, and vice-versa.
 

13thhr

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Just one adjustment I'd suggest to #2: sparring can be about winning, but it shouldn't always be about winning. Sometimes, the best benefit is when the other guy is using his best stuff to stop your best stuff, and vice-versa.

In addition to the great points that other people have already made, I’d jus reiterate it’s hard to recreate the adrenaline dump that happens in a real life deal scenario unless your personal safety is at least somewhat on the line. At the very least, sparring continuously for 2-3 min bouts over the course of a class helps build cardiovascular fitness, which is going to help in a self defense scenario, even if it’s over in a few seconds (last thing you want to have happen then is for your body to betray you with a heart attack).

As other people mentioned, learning that you’re not going to die if you take a hard shot is confidence building in itself. In addition, while some techniques be fine in tournaments (e.g. jumping punches seen in NAASKA events, the WTF TKD strategy of falling to the mat after a kick so the opponent can’t counter, etc), you don’t have to engage in those tactics.

In times when I did have to protect myself outside of the training hall, I did find sparring helpful, since the violence aspect of things wasn’t a problem. But I have found that as I get older, I’ve become more concerned with the self defense aspect and less concerned with scoring points.

One other thing to consider - I think it’s also important to think about how you would justify your defense in court, if it comes to that, which is an important thing to include in your training. It may be hard to justify incapacitating your attacker to a jury if they know your training (I.e. when perhaps less force would have been necessary) - because, really, in a real life scenario, it really isn’t about winning or losing or looking good. You winning means you walk out alive or with minimal injury and get to go home.
 

AngryHobbit

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I feel like there's a big difference between point sparring and actual real world self defense. For example, in the real world you won't be wearing protection, fights probably won't last two minutes, and there are no rules or off limits areas.
With that in mind, is sparring supposed to be something that helps you prepare for real world self defense in some way, or is the purpose of sparring something else entirely?
Thanks everyone.
While it's true that sparring has protection gear and rules you can set and adjust, I think it's a good missing link between no self-defense training at all and real-world self-defense.

I realize everyone's experiences are probably very different. For myself, sparring taught me not to flinch at being hit. As someone who has been bullied through her childhood, I was very prone to just freezing on the spot or cowering when someone took a swing at me. So, sparring in a controlled environment, where I new with certainty no one intended to actually hurt me, and the only goal was education, really helped overcome that fear.

I am still all for blocking and blending - if there's a way to avoid getting hit, let's avoid getting hit. But, having done defensive and offensive sparring, at least I know I won't pass out or vomit if someone does make contact. :)
 

IvanTheBrick

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I feel like there's a big difference between point sparring and actual real world self defense. For example, in the real world you won't be wearing protection, fights probably won't last two minutes, and there are no rules or off limits areas.
With that in mind, is sparring supposed to be something that helps you prepare for real world self defense in some way, or is the purpose of sparring something else entirely?
Thanks everyone.
Sparring allows you to apply the movements you learn. As the guy said above it's about repetition, so that you can instinctively apply it to a real world situation even though sparring is nothing like so; street fights are dirty and unpredictable. However, it can teach you to take hits and such, because even if you're wearing gloves and so is your opponent, the hits can be brutal. That's what I know anyway, I could be wrong.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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is sparring supposed to be something that helps you prepare for real world self defense in some way, ...?
The sparring can only test the techniques that you have already developed. It will not help you to develop new technique. For example, if you have never trained "foot sweep" in partner drill, you will never be able to suddenly sweep your opponent down in sparring.

The opportunity is only given to those who has fully prepared.
 

JR 137

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The sparring can only test the techniques that you have already developed. It will not help you to develop new technique. For example, if you have never trained "foot sweep" in partner drill, you will never be able to suddenly sweep your opponent down in sparring.

The opportunity is only given to those who has fully prepared.
Yes, but it can help develop new strategies and fine tune the techniques you’ve learned. Techniques always need to be fine tuned when training against a resisting opponent. I can throw and land beautiful combos on a punching bag. Once that bag starts to move and hit back, it ain’t so beautiful anymore.
 

wingchun100

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When I think of point sparring, I think of a fight that is stopped by a referee after someone lands a hit. THAT type of sparring would not simulate a street fight, where your opponent will not stop...even once you are down.

However, you do need a game plan. As for me, I need sparring to develop (1) timing, (2) distance, (3) footwork, (4) stamina/cardio, (5) defenses against certain kinds of attacks that I don't know how to handle, and (6) to help overcome the FEAR of being hit.
 

marques

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I feel like there's a big difference between point sparring and actual real world self defense. For example, in the real world you won't be wearing protection, fights probably won't last two minutes, and there are no rules or off limits areas.
With that in mind, is sparring supposed to be something that helps you prepare for real world self defense in some way, or is the purpose of sparring something else entirely?
Thanks everyone.
Well, sparring context is closer to combat sports than self-defence. It will help in self-defence to some extent.

But if you really want to train for self defence, you can recreate the scenario you want to train. Ex: what to do if you are on the ground being kicked by three guys? You recreate this scenario and you start doing/trying things. What if there is little space or the ground is not soft? Try it.

The issue is scenario-based training is not easy to do. Needs lots of resources and time, different places, safety issues, expensive protections... and then virtually everyone is forced to do not go beyong sparring as routine.

However, 1 vs 2 or 1 vs many is still quite easy. And sparring does not need to be point sparring. Who stops with a point? I like the light/slow sparring that ends up with a 'TKO'.

To finish, what is the purpose of sparring? For me it is me most peaceful moment in life. :) Or I am 100% focusing on what I am doing, or I am just watching myself moving. What a feeling...
 

Buka

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Well, sparring context is closer to combat sports than self-defence. It will help in self-defence to some extent.

But if you really want to train for self defence, you can recreate the scenario you want to train. Ex: what to do if you are on the ground being kicked by three guys? You recreate this scenario and you start doing/trying things. What if there is little space or the ground is not soft? Try it.

The issue is scenario-based training is not easy to do. Needs lots of resources and time, different places, safety issues, expensive protections... and then virtually everyone is forced to do not go beyong sparring as routine.

However, 1 vs 2 or 1 vs many is still quite easy. And sparring does not need to be point sparring. Who stops with a point? I like the light/slow sparring that ends up with a 'TKO'.

To finish, what is the purpose of sparring? For me it is me most peaceful moment in life. :) Or I am 100% focusing on what I am doing, or I am just watching myself moving. What a feeling...

Love it.
 

marques

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Is that right after you block a kick with your face? I'm usually peaceful for a moment when I do something like that.
The closest to that were some punches, but never enough for the 'peace'. So I just got angry (against guys that go beyond the rules) and worried about my mental health... :/
 

Hanshi

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My opinion, such as it is, is that sparring is definitely a useful training tool. Sparring teaches students distancing, movement, reading an opponent and using combinations. It is important, IMHO, to include sparring in training. Sparring is not fighting and is not even remotely related to street "justice". So I'm for the inclusion of sparring in the dojo. When I first started there was no such thing as safety gear; control had to be learned and there were still injuries; I'm ashamed to say I inflicted a few. I've always been "hard core" in workouts and teaching students.

It must be understood, however, that the student DOES NOT and should not rely on the techniques used in sparring to use them on the street. I see too many students including black belts practicing high kicks, aerial kicks and foolishly think they can use them in combat. Many also are deluded into thinking they can fight backing up. I teach angles and forward movement and teach that one can only prevail in combat that way. Sparring is similar to kata in that they both train certain skills that are necessary for safety. But is vitally important to train in attacks that are likely to actually happen. A mat is the best for this type work. Sudden grabs from behind, knowing when/what an attack is happening and have them learn NOT to rely on complicated moves or flashy moves. I know too many black belts, some high ranking, that simply don't know how to react when grabbed by surprise. I also know of many whom one would/should not even dream of doing that. Sparring/kata are good but realistic training and instruction must accompany it.
 

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My opinion, such as it is, is that sparring is definitely a useful training tool. Sparring teaches students distancing, movement, reading an opponent and using combinations. It is important, IMHO, to include sparring in training. Sparring is not fighting and is not even remotely related to street "justice". So I'm for the inclusion of sparring in the dojo. When I first started there was no such thing as safety gear; control had to be learned and there were still injuries; I'm ashamed to say I inflicted a few. I've always been "hard core" in workouts and teaching students.

It must be understood, however, that the student DOES NOT and should not rely on the techniques used in sparring to use them on the street. I see too many students including black belts practicing high kicks, aerial kicks and foolishly think they can use them in combat. Many also are deluded into thinking they can fight backing up. I teach angles and forward movement and teach that one can only prevail in combat that way. Sparring is similar to kata in that they both train certain skills that are necessary for safety. But is vitally important to train in attacks that are likely to actually happen. A mat is the best for this type work. Sudden grabs from behind, knowing when/what an attack is happening and have them learn NOT to rely on complicated moves or flashy moves. I know too many black belts, some high ranking, that simply don't know how to react when grabbed by surprise. I also know of many whom one would/should not even dream of doing that. Sparring/kata are good but realistic training and instruction must accompany it.
Agreed another thing I'll add is the element of surprise. Sparring is an arranged thing you know it's happening you've got a while to prepare either a whole day if you know it's sparring class or at least a few minutes to get your gear on and set up. In a situation there's mostly no warning you're straight in and fighting.

One drill we do in my Krav Maga class that I like is at the end of a lesson after we've been taught 2 different self defence techniques he puts us in 2 groups one group stands on the floor with their eyes closed and the other group puts you in the attacks for the taught techniques and you have to react and do them. That way you don't know when you'll be attacked you don't know who you're attacked by or their strength and size etc and you don't know what attack they'll give you
 

Gerry Seymour

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Agreed another thing I'll add is the element of surprise. Sparring is an arranged thing you know it's happening you've got a while to prepare either a whole day if you know it's sparring class or at least a few minutes to get your gear on and set up. In a situation there's mostly no warning you're straight in and fighting.

One drill we do in my Krav Maga class that I like is at the end of a lesson after we've been taught 2 different self defence techniques he puts us in 2 groups one group stands on the floor with their eyes closed and the other group puts you in the attacks for the taught techniques and you have to react and do them. That way you don't know when you'll be attacked you don't know who you're attacked by or their strength and size etc and you don't know what attack they'll give you
We've used a similar drill. Line everyone up on both sides to make an alley (alternating sides). Target turns their back and instructor selects who the attackers will be. Then you walk the alley. Could be no attacks. Could be everyone. Could be anything between those two points.
 

sinthetik_mistik

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Agreed another thing I'll add is the element of surprise. Sparring is an arranged thing you know it's happening you've got a while to prepare either a whole day if you know it's sparring class or at least a few minutes to get your gear on and set up. In a situation there's mostly no warning you're straight in and fighting.

One drill we do in my Krav Maga class that I like is at the end of a lesson after we've been taught 2 different self defence techniques he puts us in 2 groups one group stands on the floor with their eyes closed and the other group puts you in the attacks for the taught techniques and you have to react and do them. That way you don't know when you'll be attacked you don't know who you're attacked by or their strength and size etc and you don't know what attack they'll give you

yeah my Krav class has the exact same drill
 

dvcochran

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I feel like there's a big difference between point sparring and actual real world self defense. For example, in the real world you won't be wearing protection, fights probably won't last two minutes, and there are no rules or off limits areas.
With that in mind, is sparring supposed to be something that helps you prepare for real world self defense in some way, or is the purpose of sparring something else entirely?
Thanks everyone.
By definition, sparring and self defense training are two very different things. In the latter, both words are literal, self defense. In class, SD practice should always be done with the right tone and attitude. That does not mean fear. As with any learning, there will be a period of time where trying to go full power is counter-productive and is often where bad habits are formed. For practical purposes when the techniques are understood and performed correctly, pads should be used so the counter-striker can go full speed/full power. Yes, that is hard to do with locks and bars. It is a learning process for both sides, how to give and take a hit.
As many have mentioned, sparring is most often style or system specific. There aren't many general sparring rules that I can think of that are universal for all styles/systems.
As far as class time, the same rules apply. I can think of many times where the new guy was really excited and trying really hard but not very effective at sparring. I do agree that too often the wrong tone and attitude is taken during sparring and it does become more of a give and take dance. For me, this is on the instructor. However, somewhere in that is a big part of the social aspect of most schools. There are times that it is appropriate, e.g. an 18 year old red/brown belt sparring with a 45 year old yellow belt. Patience training for the 18 year old; over coming fear for the 45 year old. I encourage anyone who is wanting more out of class time sparring to respectfully talk to their instructor about more sparring time. Somewhere in the process you will learn there is more to it than you think.
 

jobo

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Agreed another thing I'll add is the element of surprise. Sparring is an arranged thing you know it's happening you've got a while to prepare either a whole day if you know it's sparring class or at least a few minutes to get your gear on and set up. In a situation there's mostly no warning you're straight in and fighting.

One drill we do in my Krav Maga class that I like is at the end of a lesson after we've been taught 2 different self defence techniques he puts us in 2 groups one group stands on the floor with their eyes closed and the other group puts you in the attacks for the taught techniques and you have to react and do them. That way you don't know when you'll be attacked you don't know who you're attacked by or their strength and size etc and you don't know what attack they'll give you
If they punch you very hard on the nose whilst your eyes are closed, what do you learn from that, apart from don't stand there with your eyes closed!
 

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If they punch you very hard on the nose whilst your eyes are closed, what do you learn from that, apart from don't stand there with your eyes closed!
Obviously not for punch defences....it's for things like chokes or grabs
 

jobo

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Well, sparring context is closer to combat sports than self-defence. It will help in self-defence to some extent.

But if you really want to train for self defence, you can recreate the scenario you want to train. Ex: what to do if you are on the ground being kicked by three guys? You recreate this scenario and you start doing/trying things. What if there is little space or the ground is not soft? Try it.

The issue is scenario-based training is not easy to do. Needs lots of resources and time, different places, safety issues, expensive protections... and then virtually everyone is forced to do not go beyong sparring as routine.

However, 1 vs 2 or 1 vs many is still quite easy. And sparring does not need to be point sparring. Who stops with a point? I like the light/slow sparring that ends up with a 'TKO'.

To finish, what is the purpose of sparring? For me it is me most peaceful moment in life. :) Or I am 100% focusing on what I am doing, or I am just watching myself moving. What a feeling...
I'm not a big fan of scenarios, that always lack authenticity, as they are closer to flow drIlls than combat, as the scenario defines the mode of attack.

If I have an opponent on the floor to be kicked, never mind if I have tWo mates with me, then they are not getting up, it's as simple as that, if they do then it's because I was a compliment attacker so that's just a flow drill, practising not going on the floor, particularly if your out numbered would be a useful thing to do, practising getting up very quickly before they get in position is also useful, but lying on you back whilst the people pretend to kick you very hard in the kidneys is just silly, if you get up its because they aren't kicking you in the kidneys
 

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