Unpopular opinion: early ufc was better than current ufc

[Tigerwarrior]

Alot of people will probably disagree with this, but in my opinion early ufc(the first 10) were better than the current ufc's. In the early ufc you had guys from very different backgrounds fighting each other, it was unpredictable and very exciting. Now a days everyone fights the same way for the most part, 8 out of 10 fights end up on the ground for 30 minutes with no one going for anything. There's still excitement from time to time, crazy knockouts, slick submissions but it is called ultimate fighting and it seems no one is going for it anymore, everyone is playing it safe honestly. Also want to state I'm a huge fan of combat sports and in no way do I think I'm a better fighter than the current champions, I just think we are seeing a lack of innovation and uniqueness that was present in the early ufc. Thoughts?

 

[drop bear]

They didn't fight very well in those first UFCs

 

[JowGaWolf]

Alot of people will probably disagree with this, but in my opinion early ufc(the first 10) were better than the current ufc's. In the early ufc you had guys from very different backgrounds fighting each other, it was unpredictable and very exciting. Now a days everyone fights the same way for the most part, 8 out of 10 fights end up on the ground for 30 minutes with no one going for anything. There's still excitement from time to time, crazy knockouts, slick submissions but it is called ultimate fighting and it seems no one is going for it anymore, everyone is playing it safe honestly. Also want to state I'm a huge fan of combat sports and in no way do I think I'm a better fighter than the current champions, I just think we are seeing a lack of innovation and uniqueness that was present in the early ufc. Thoughts?

People threw away their system instead of digging deeper into it. Even today you hear people to encourage others to throw away their system and take BJJ. My approach is to spend more time training system A vs System B.

I can't get better with Jow Ga if I abandon it. Today I saw something my son taught me about foot work. It's called zig zig footwork in boxing. I saw my son do this many years before boxing did. 10 + years easily. I adopted that footwork myself. This improvement doesn't happen if We abandon our system.

It's fine to train other martial arts but don't abandon your system because you think one is better. Develop what you know. Learn and experience how other systems try to defeat you and then dig deep in your system for a solution.

Had people done this in the past then things would be better.

 

[drop bear]

People threw away their system instead of digging deeper into it. Even today you hear people to encourage others to throw away their system and take BJJ. My approach is to spend more time training system A vs System B.

I can't get better with Jow Ga if I abandon it. Today I saw something my son taught me about foot work. It's called zig zig footwork in boxing. I saw my son do this many years before boxing did. 10 + years easily. I adopted that footwork myself. This improvement doesn't happen if We abandon our system.

It's fine to train other martial arts but don't abandon your system because you think one is better. Develop what you know. Learn and experience how other systems try to defeat you and then dig deep in your system for a solution.

Had people done this in the past then things would be better.

Well yeah. Because people who didn't adapt got their heads kicked in.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well yeah. Because people who didn't adapt got their heads kicked in.

They didn't adapt. They changed systems. Adaptation would be a frog gaining web feet to swim better. It's still a frog.

But what many do is change from a frog to a fish. That is not adaptation. That is not digging down into you DNA to see how you can swim faster as a frog.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But what many do is change from a frog to a fish.

May be a full growing frog just take too much time.

You can only fight when you are young. When you get older, even if you have developed some amazing ability, you may be too old to compete in the ring.

Will a striker who knows nothing about the throwing art is willing to spend 2 years to develop a dependable "hip throw" from scratch? He may prefer to spend those 2 years to make his punch stronger.

MMA guys need fast solution. Anything that may take years of development, they won't be interested in it.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Now a days everyone fights the same way for the most part, 8 out of 10 fights end up on the ground for 30 minutes with no one going for anything.

This hasn't been true for about 285 UFCs.

 

[JowGaWolf]

May be a full growing frog just take too much time.

Only because there is no development. I can teach students how to use Jow Ga faster than I learned. The only reason why is because I know how you us it.

For example, Tony has the basic understanding of the long fist punch. He knows where to target which knuckles and part of the fist is use. It took me about 10 years to learn what he can learn in 6 or 12 months.

Because I use it, I can help people to avoid where I stumbled or made mistakes.
If I don't know how to use it then it will take much long

It's faster to travel a well used cleared path than a path that is rarely used and overgrown with plants

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I can teach students how to use Jow Ga faster than I learned.

How long do you think an average student will need to learn/use this take down?



image for upload

 

[drop bear]

They didn't adapt. They changed systems. Adaptation would be a frog gaining web feet to swim better. It's still a frog.

But what many do is change from a frog to a fish. That is not adaptation. That is not digging down into you DNA to see how you can swim faster as a frog.

That's fine. What it isn’t doing is getting their heads kicked in.

Professional fighting is serious business. People get really hurt if they jump in rhe cage and haven't given themselves the best possible chance.

 

[marvin8]

They didn't fight very well in those first UFCs

Agree, fighting knowledge and skill level has increased along with the growth of the UFC. More fighters, trainers, technology, historical data, fight analysis and training camps help fighting evolve.

 

[drop bear]

 

[JowGaWolf]

How long do you think an average student will need to learn/use this take down?



image for upload

I don't have the ability to give you an answer to that question because I don't know how lo do that take down. If I knew how to do it and use it in sparring then I would have a path and the time that it took me to travel that path. From there I would be able to identify what helped me to learn it and then make some adjustments so that "my student" wouldn't waste time to make certain mistakes.

I would ask myself if there were things that were confusing to me, that could have been explained in a different way. But I can't do any of that if I don't have a learning path of my own.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Professional fighting is serious business. People get really hurt if they jump in rhe cage and haven't given themselves the best possible chance.

Professional fighting doesn't have anything to do with digging into your system and learning what is being applied to you. Everything that I'm talking about is done in training. That's where fighting skills are learned. Trying to dig deeper into a technique during a professional fight makes no sense.

In a professional fight, you are using skills that you already developed. You are using strategies that you have already learned. You aren't trying new stuff in a professional fight.

This is why I say that I always spar to learn.. When I was training with @Tony Dismukes I put myself in positions that I wouldn't put myself in, if I was in a real fight or competitive fight. I also took the opportunity to use techniques that I though would address certain grappling situations. I was unsure if I was using the right technique. Why would I make that same decision in a competitive fight? I wouldn't. What I'm talking about must be done in training. It's like everything else. Why would I punch in a competitive fight if my punching skill is weak? I wouldn't. I would first train my punching skill in sparring and bring that punching skill to a level that can be used in professional fighting.

This is the learning path that even professional fighters take.. They train and they develop., then they compete.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Agree, fighting knowledge and skill level has increased along with the growth of the UFC. More fighters, trainers, technology, historical data, fight analysis and training camps help fighting evolve.

That's because MMA takes a person out of the System A vs System A training mindset. The UFC was the best time to take advantage of strikers that didn't have a ground fighting game and it showed. If one wants to improve their own skill sets then they must introduce their defenses against new attacks, They must also learn new attacks because after a while everyone figures out the general game. So you have to hit people with stuff they aren't ready for and haven't had a chance to prepare for.

For me, my Jow Ga fighting skill will increase because I'm exposing those skill sets to BJJ, Muay Thai, TKD, and whatever else I get an opportunity to go against. Even the smallest of gains are important.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You can see a Jow Ga student training here.

Derek Tai Lik Johnson

Cheung Tai Lik’s Jow Ga Kung Fu 張大力 - 周家功 夫

www.youtube.com

We see a lot of striking but not a lot of grappling. Have him deal with grappling attacks and his Jow Ga will start to be informed about grappling and his Jow Ga skills will evolve and grow to deal with grappling. But this will only happen if he looks for a Jow Ga solution. If he trains BJJ then only his BJJ skills will increase. If he wants to develop his Jow Ga skills, then he has to find a Jow Ga solution.

MMA doesn't make any such distiction. MMA doesn't try to improve a specific system. Instead it takes bits in pieces to make a "Hybrid" Fighter. Its not trying to develop a Muay Thai ground fighting solution, Instead it just uses BJJ. It will help the fight but it will not develop Muay Thai

For me if I only care about the win, then I would do the same. But I care about developing Jow Ga and that means there is will be a limitation. The good news is that Jow Ga is a hybrid system. So I have 3 original systems in which I can look for solutions. I also believe that Shuai Jiao is grappling component for Kung Fu systems that was originally separated from many of the kung fu systems. So in reality I have 4 systems to choose from without straying too far from Jow Ga.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Alot of people will probably disagree with this, but in my opinion early ufc(the first 10) were better than the current ufc's. In the early ufc you had guys from very different backgrounds fighting each other, it was unpredictable and very exciting. Now a days everyone fights the same way for the most part, 8 out of 10 fights end up on the ground for 30 minutes with no one going for anything. There's still excitement from time to time, crazy knockouts, slick submissions but it is called ultimate fighting and it seems no one is going for it anymore, everyone is playing it safe honestly. Also want to state I'm a huge fan of combat sports and in no way do I think I'm a better fighter than the current champions, I just think we are seeing a lack of innovation and uniqueness that was present in the early ufc. Thoughts?

I agree. There were more traditional martial arts being represented back then.

Traditional striking arts like karate, taekwondo, and kung fu aren't going to be represented at the same levels they were back then, unless they incorporate the same training methods used in boxing and Muay Thai (slip lines, pad work, etc).

 

[Tony Dismukes]

People threw away their system instead of digging deeper into it

I don't think this is really true for most UFC fighters.

Fighters who came in with a foundation in wrestling didn't abandon wrestling. They learned how to adjust their wrestling for an environment where they could get punched, kicked, and submitted. Along the way, they generally developed some good skills for punching, kicking, choking, and arm-locking along with their wrestling.

Fighters who came in with a foundation in Karate didn't abandon Karate. They learned how to adjust their Karate for an environment where they could get taken down and submitted. Along the way, they generally developed some good skills in wrestling and submissions.

Fighters who came in with a foundation in BJJ initially did very well because they had a tradition of training against wrestlers, karateka, boxers, etc. But a large part of that early success was due to the fact that their methods were a mystery to their opponents. Once all the fighters in MMA were wise to their tricks, then they had to up their game by getting better at striking, wrestling, and even the foundations of BJJ.

What we did see after the first few years of MMA was that most of the would-be fighters who insisted that they didn't need to cross-train because their preferred art held all the answers just stopped showing up to compete, because they couldn't even get do weel at the amateur level, let alone the elite professional ranks. Nowadays we see an increasing number of fighters who come in without a foundation in a single art and just start training in "MMA". i.e. a given gym's synthesis of the essential techniques and training methods for MMA competition. But there are also still plenty of fighters who have a strong foundation in one or two arts and continue using those during their fight careers.

I'm not saying that there are no fighters who started out with a strong base in Wing Chun or TKD or whatever and then completely threw it out in order to go study BJJ and subsequently had a significant MMA fight career. I'm just saying that I can't think of any offhand.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What we did see after the first few years of MMA was that most of the would-be fighters who insisted that they didn't need to cross-train because their preferred art held all the answers just

We definitely saw this. That's when that excuse "made for the streets became rampant." I try to protect myself against that mindset. If the solution isn't in the system then I need to add it. If it's in the system then I need to develop it / learn it.

These days I see more MMA fighters digging deeper into traditional techniques than TMA practitioners do.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

We definitely saw this. That's when that excuse "made for the streets became rampant." I try to protect myself against that mindset. If the solution isn't in the system then I need to add it. If it's in the system then I need to develop it / learn it.

These days I see more MMA fighters digging deeper into traditional techniques than TMA practitioners do.

There were certainly plenty of hobbyists/non-fighters who left their TMA to study BJJ, MMA, or some other combat sport. But I'm having a hard time remembering any actual competitive fighters who abandoned their base art. Can you think of any examples?