Understanding Wing Chun's Centre Line

[Jaz]

Hi Everyone, I made this video about three ways that the Centre Line Theory can be understood. I talk about it as the following:

A) a target zone.
B) the shortest distance between your attacking tool and the target.
C) a method of getting to a position whereby your opponent can offer the least resistance - with the inclusion of the Centre Line being like a plumb line through the centre of the body.

These ways of understanding it deal with the doctrine of assuming that the opponent is bigger, faster and stronger than you.
Do you know or use any other ways to understand it and apply to Wing Chun? If you want to check out the video, here's the link:

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm curious to see what others say. I don't train Wing Chung so my center line concept of different.

 

[wckf92]

Hi Everyone, I made this video about three ways that the Centre Line Theory can be understood. I talk about it as the following:

A) a target zone.
B) the shortest distance between your attacking tool and the target.
C) a method of getting to a position whereby your opponent can offer the least resistance - with the inclusion of the Centre Line being like a plumb line through the centre of the body.

These ways of understanding it deal with the doctrine of assuming that the opponent is bigger, faster and stronger than you.
Do you know or use any other ways to understand it and apply to Wing Chun? If you want to check out the video, here's the link:

Hi Jaz. Welcome to the forum. Thanks for posting.

My two cents regarding centerline:
1) I cover & protect mine
2) I attack his
3)...using a weapon that takes the most direct path to the target
4) 1, 2, and 3 ideally take place at the same time given the circumstances.

 

[Eric_H]

The most common answers regarding centerline are "shortest distance from A to B" or "the line running down the middle of the body".

For Hung Fa Yi, we have 3 elements:
* Self Centerline (Body alignment)
* Kiu Sao centerline (targeting)
* Energy centerline (balanced contact)

You can only have the third piece after contact, the first two are possible from Bai Jong.

For us, centerline is the driving difference of WC vs other kung fu. No centerline = no wing chun.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I like to train 2 different ways. To protect my centerline from

1. inside out - you occupy the centerline; your opponent has to go around it. You then separate his arms away from his head (separate hands strategy).
2. outside in - you invite your opponent to attack your centerline, you then attack his attacking arm (anti-missile strategy).

 

[Jaz]

Hi Jaz. Welcome to the forum. Thanks for posting.

My two cents regarding centerline:
1) I cover & protect mine
2) I attack his
3)...using a weapon that takes the most direct path to the target
4) 1, 2, and 3 ideally take place at the same time given the circumstances.

Good point about covering and protecting your centre line, whilst attacking your opponent's. Usually, people see Wing Chun as attacking and defending, in terms of applying the techniques - i.e. deflecting a punch, whilst delivering your own strike. Looking at this in terms of defending and attacking the Centre line brings about the bigger picture. Nice one.

 

[geezer]

I genuinely liked the video, and it featured an array of really good WC and WT people ...but as far as communicating what centerline theory is about, all I heard was blah blah blah while I was enjoying the visuals. No worries though. It's not your fault I have a really short attention span.

Also, maybe part of the problem is that it's pretty tough to verbally explain centerline theory in a way that covers all WC branches and lineages. And, even within a single lineage a verbal explanation alone won't cut it. It's a lot easier to explain while physically demonstrating so the student can hear, see and feel what you are talking about. And even then it takes a while.

Anyway thanks for posting the clip!

 

[Jaz]

I genuinely liked the video, and it featured an array of really good WC and WT people ...but as far as communicating what centerline theory is about, all I heard was blah blah blah while I was enjoying the visuals. No worries though. It's not your fault I have a really short attention span.

Also, maybe part of the problem is that it's pretty tough to verbally explain centerline theory in a way that covers all WC branches and lineages. And, even within a single lineage a verbal explanation alone won't cut it. It's a lot easier to explain while physically demonstrating so the student can hear, see and feel what you are talking about. And even then it takes a while.

Anyway thanks for posting the clip!

Oh no!!! Is that how I came across !!! I guess that it must be difficult to listen to someone talk at length about a topic - especially if they have a droney voice like mine! It definitely is difficult to explain the various ways of understanding the centre line theory. Feeling the explanation will always be way better than listening to it. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Martial D]

It's really just mechanics. When the elbow is on center the arm is both very hard to collapse, and at the optimal point to drive forward for the wingchun punch. From there you can build on theory such as angle of attack and alignment and strategies to get to advantageous position.

 

[geezer]

It's really just mechanics...

Agreed, and yet sometimes the simplest things can be the hardest to get across.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

No centerline = no wing chun.

If we look at from the general MA point of view,

- You can use a circular punch to knock down a straight punch.
- You can't use a straight punch to knock down a circular punch.

The circular punch has physical natural advantage over the straight punch (because it covers a space and not just a line).

When you use straight punches, how do you deal with your opponent's circular punches that come around your centerline?

In the following clip, the staff is similar to the circular punch. The spear is similar to the straight punch. The staff can attack in 2 dimensions. The spear can only attack in 1 dimension.

When you stab your spear at your opponent's chest, if your opponent blocks it, he then swings his staff to hit on the side of your head, how to you deal with it? If you try to use spear to block his staff attack, his staff swinging force may knock your spear down.

 

[wckf92]

If we look at from the general MA point of view,

- You can use a circular punch to knock down a straight punch.
- You can't use a straight punch to knock down a circular punch.

The circular punch has physical natural advantage over the straight punch (because it covers a space and not just a line).

When you use straight punches, how do you deal with your opponent's circular punches that come around your centerline?

In the following clip, the staff is similar to the circular punch. The spear is similar to the straight punch. The staff can attack in 2 dimensions. The spear can only attack in 1 dimension.

When you stab your spear at your opponent's chest, if your opponent moves his body out of your attacking path, he then swings his staff to hit on the side of your head, how to you deal with it? If you try to use spear to block his staff attack, his staff swinging force may knock your spear down.

Simple, you move.

 

[Martial D]

If we look at from the general MA point of view,

- You can use a circular punch to knock down a straight punch.
- You can't use a straight punch to knock down a circular punch.

The circular punch has physical natural advantage over the straight punch (because it covers a space and not just a line).

When you use straight punches, how do you deal with your opponent's circular punches that come around your centerline?

In the following clip, the staff is similar to the circular punch. The spear is similar to the straight punch. The staff can attack in 2 dimensions. The spear can only attack in 1 dimension.

When you stab your spear at your opponent's chest, if your opponent blocks it, he then swings his staff to hit on the side of your head, how to you deal with it? If you try to use spear to block his staff attack, his staff swinging force may knock your spear down.

The thing about that though is the straight punch is much faster. Multiply that with the fact that there is no reaction time for the initiator and you are left needing to be orders of magnitude faster than the other guy to knock down a straight punch with a circular one. Very very low percentage.

 

[Flying Crane]

If we look at from the general MA point of view,

- You can use a circular punch to knock down a straight punch.
- You can't use a straight punch to knock down a circular punch.

The circular punch has physical natural advantage over the straight punch (because it covers a space and not just a line).

When you use straight punches, how do you deal with your opponent's circular punches that come around your centerline?

In the following clip, the staff is similar to the circular punch. The spear is similar to the straight punch. The staff can attack in 2 dimensions. The spear can only attack in 1 dimension.

When you stab your spear at your opponent's chest, if your opponent blocks it, he then swings his staff to hit on the side of your head, how to you deal with it? If you try to use spear to block his staff attack, his staff swinging force may knock your spear down.

I understand the point you are attempting to make, but I believe your example is not accurate. Both staff and spear have a rich body of techniques that include thrusts, swings, battering strikes, circular moves, etc. They are both spherical in their possibilities.

They said, straight punch can attack the root of a circular punch at the shoulder, and disrupt the circular punch before it lands. Lots of possibilities for either side of the argument.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The thing about that though is the straight punch is much faster. Multiply that with the fact that there is no reaction time for the initiator and you are left needing to be orders of magnitude faster than the other guy to knock down a straight punch with a circular one. Very very low percentage.

It depends on how large that your circular punch is. If you use small circle, your circular punch can be as fast as your straight punch.

This is why the spear uses small circle to defect opponent's spear attack.

The spear has only 3 techniques.

- small counter clockwise circle,
- small clockwise circle,
- stab.

If you think the straight line is always faster than the circle, the ancient spear fighting record showed that the spear small circle could deflect the straight line attack.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Both staff and spear have a rich body of techniques that include thrusts, swings, battering strikes, circular moves, etc. They are both spherical in their possibilities.

Again, the spear only has 3 techniques. All the other techniques came from the staff technique.

Both WC system and spear fight are very similar. Both emphasizes on the straight-line attack. The spear has small circular moves used for defense, IMO, the WC system should have it too.

 

[Flying Crane]

Again, the spear only has 3 techniques. All the other techniques came from the staff technique.

Both WC system and spear fight are very similar. Both emphasizes on the straight-line attack. The spear has small circular moves used for defense, IMO, the WC system should have it too.

Do you believe this? My spear has far more than three techniques. And if other techniques came from staff, so what? If they work with spear, then they enrich spear. The spear is very versatile.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you believe this? My spear has far more than three techniques. And if other techniques came from staff, so what? If they work with spear, then they enrich spear. The spear is very versatile.

You have just made my point. There exists no pure straight-line attack weapon. Even a straight-line attack weapon should also include circular attack/defense movement.

In other words, as a fighting system, straight line attack by itself is not enough.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you believe this? My spear has far more than three techniques.

This is why in CMA, the staff training is always before the spear training.

 

[Flying Crane]

The main purpose of the spear weapon is to use the spear head to stab. Of course, you can use both ends to swing, but that's not the main purpose of the spear weapon.

You can use the other end of your dagger to hit on your opponent's chest. But that's not the main function of that dagger.

The main purpose of a spear is to kill the enemy. It can be done in many ways. If you can only see the spear point, you miss all the other possibilities.