Training question

[Flatlander]

Here's my training question:

Does the progression of the Modern Arnis student go something like this?

Striking and blocking,

Passing and locking,

Forms and counters,

Counters to counters,

Tapi Tapi.

 

[Guro Harold]

Hi Flatlander,

Great question! Here is my take on it:

Striking -> blocking -> counter-> counter-for-counter (tapi-tapi is counter for counter also).
force against force-> passing the force -> using the force :jedi1: (sorry, couldn't resist) I mean redirecting the force to counter, lock,and throw.

Static drills/forms/isolations -> understanding of applications->execution of applications -> dynamic implimentation and threading of applications ("making the connection") -> innovation -> being able to teach a student up to that level.

Best regards,

Palusut

 

[Flatlander]

using the force :jedi1: (sorry, couldn't resist) I mean redirecting the force to counter, lock,and throw.

dynamic implimentation and threading of applications ("making the connection") -> innovation -> being able to teach a student up to that level.

Best regards,

Palusut

Thanks a bunch for the extremely speedy reply. What I've highlighted up there seem to me to be the difficult bits.

My thought is that in order to really "get" those parts, particularly the dynamic parts, would require a great deal of live 'doing'.

So my follow up question is this. At this point then, would it be inappropriate for me to find other people, other than my instructor to 'play' with? I want to gain the live experience, but don't think that the 'formal' hour per week is progressing me as fast as my lack of patience allows me to be comfortable with. I've got plenty of initiative, just not enough money to facilitate that right now. What do you think? Would I maybe better off dealing with someone skilled, as opposed to just monkeying around with my buds in the back yard?

 

[Guro Harold]

So my follow up question is this. At this point then, would it be inappropriate for me to find other people, other than my instructor to 'play' with? I want to gain the live experience, but don't think that the 'formal' hour per week is progressing me as fast as my lack of patience allows me to be comfortable with. I've got plenty of initiative, just not enough money to facilitate that right now. What do you think? Would I maybe better off dealing with someone skilled, as opposed to just monkeying around with my buds in the back yard?

One of the best things you get from your instructor is insight and their experience so by all means stick with that and some. When you get extra money, take private lessons too!

You are talking to a person who at one time went to class and trained Arnis and Sil-Lum Kung-fu five days a week, attended seminars, took alot of private classes, practiced something almost everyday, initiated lunch training sessions with a couple of fellow students, amassed a great collection of video and book references and studied something a least once a day, touched hands with as many people that I could, freely yet with discretion shared my knowledge with with friends, traveled to seminars up and down the east coast and Europe.

Bear in mind also that I had an two-hour round commute in order to be able to train the arts that I wanted to learn as well. And worked killer hours as well. Because of my dedication, I was able to earn black-belts in both Sil-Lum Kung-Fu and Modern Arnis with 3 and 1/2 years as well as learn the Yang Short Form, and gain some experience in Emperor's Long Fist, Chi-Gung, Chin Na, and some Tibetan Monk/Indonesian Silat seminars to name a few.

I took advantage as much as I could to learn and I appreciate those times now that I am a bum . Unfortunately, I am only able to teach twice a week and get up with some students and friends to train once or twice a month. And hopefully, once my downtime is over, I can get out more and play. but my daughter and work come first right now.

So, my suggestion is do whatever it takes to pursue your passion not only within reason but with reason as well.

Best regards,

Harold Evans
Proud member and student of:

Tuhon Ray Dionaldo's Filipino Combat Systems

GrandMaster Rick Ward's International Kung-Fu Arnis Academy under Sifu/Guro David Ng of Raleigh, NC

GM Remy A. Presas' Modern Arnis (IMAF, Inc) under Guro David Ng.

Hock Hochheim's Scientific Fighting Congress' Pacific Archipelago and Filipino Combatives under Guro Lyndon Johnson.

 

[arnisandyz]

Hey Palisut, I hear you on the daughter, wife and work thing!

Flatlander, Heres what our club follows. I'd like to add this is NOT a 1-2-3 step process but rather a guideline to help members understand what level they are training on. As I mention below someone may be working on several or all three levels at once. By the way, we don't follow a ranking system.

Training Levels
Three levels of training have been established to help the individual assess his/her own skill level. This puts more responsibility on the student to learn. Throughout training, all students and instructors will always work on one, two or all of the three levels.

Level 1: Abecedarios
The ABC's, the basics of footwork, zoning principles, identifying ranges, angles of attack, proper body mechanics and striking patterns lay the groundwork.

Level 2: Drill Memorization, Technique Application, Conditioning
Learning the partner to partner flow drills and conditioning the mind and body. Learning the medium from which our techniques will flow.

Level 3: Deprogramming, Halo-halo, Freeflow
Learning to break free and alter set patterns, mixing of flow drills, freefighting, innovation

thanks

Andy

 

[loki09789]

If money/time is a consideration, ask/offer to instruct if you aren't already. Having to articulate and organize the information is a powerful learning tool for the instructor as well. Plus, dealing with 'untrained' students usually increases the radar factor because they are extremely unpredictable. Senior students move in fairly predictable patterns because of the training, but the challenge is to keep up or stay ahead in athletic performance (agility, responsiveness, endurance,....).

You will develop added sensitivity dealing with newbies because they are less programmed and you have to be really on to avoid personal injury or having them injure each other. It isn't a great substitute, but I think it is in the same vein of finding new players to train with so you can learn to apply your stuff to someone other than people who move like you.

 

[Guro Harold]

If money/time is a consideration, ask/offer to instruct if you aren't already. Having to articulate and organize the information is a powerful learning tool for the instructor as well. Plus, dealing with 'untrained' students usually increases the radar factor because they are extremely unpredictable. Senior students move in fairly predictable patterns because of the training, but the challenge is to keep up or stay ahead in athletic performance (agility, responsiveness, endurance,....).

You will develop added sensitivity dealing with newbies because they are less programmed and you have to be really on to avoid personal injury or having them injure each other. It isn't a great substitute, but I think it is in the same vein of finding new players to train with so you can learn to apply your stuff to someone other than people who move like you.

Good points Paul. Again, care and discretion should be used in terms of training a newbie. I also want to suggest the idea of the training group where someone like flatlander can organize a group of people interested in training who can then arrange for the remote instructor to come on occasion and the organizer continues the group going at the other times.

 

[Cruentus]

Haven't read all the replies yet...but to answer flatlanders initial question...

MA is a "circular learning process" as RP taught it, not a linear one. Everything you did led to an understanding of "the flow" and "counter the counter" through live training...which gave you your real world application.

You could get there through any drill, movement, technique, or means. As you train...you come full circle again and again...heightening your knowledge of the inner concepts of the art.

So different instructors will have different processess...all of these being correct if they lead to the above explained understanding.

Ommmm...

 

[Dan Anderson]

Here's my training question:

Does the progression of the Modern Arnis student go something like this?

Striking and blocking,

Passing and locking,

Forms and counters,

Counters to counters,

Tapi Tapi.

That'll vary from teacher to teacher. I think you'd need to see curriculums from each. Some day when we meet, I'd be happy to explain my progression.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Flatlander]

That'll vary from teacher to teacher. I think you'd need to see curriculums from each. Some day when we meet, I'd be happy to explain my progression.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Thanks Dan. You totally rule.

 

[Tom Caprio]

I think that what Dan Andersion said is very true. Things vary from teacher to teacher, buut its good to see the different approaches.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Things vary from teacher to teacher, but its good to see the different approaches.

Yes, it really brings to light what the Prof. meant by the art within your art.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Flatlander]

So, here's another training question. For those who do live spar with longpole, what type of protective equipment do you generally wear?

 

[Flatlander]

I guess nobody here spars with a sibat.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I guess nobody here spars with a sibat.

I train a little to understand the weapon. It is fun and enjoyable. Yet, some of the people have already mentioned to look at it like two sticks only attached.

You can do all of the sinawali's with a staff or sibat. As to sparring, I have sparred with a real one against a wooden training katana, and with a padded one as well. I enjoy it, it allows for a quick range change and fun times.

:asian:

 

[Cruentus]

I guess nobody here spars with a sibat.

I have, but I usually don't do gear. We have one with padded ends in the school I train out of, which is a lot of fun. I have done some stuff with the live one, but mostly single cane defense of the longer weapon.

It would be nice to put the fensing helmets on and go to town sometime, though, as I might be more inclined to keep all my teeth that way!

:uhyeah:

 

[Flatlander]

Ok, new one.

I just got in from doing some solo conditioning drills with my hickory. I'm getting very frustrated with the fact that my wrists will not do complete circles, and it f%&$#s up my flow.

Is this the kind of thing that's "just going to take some time"? How much time? Its really frustrating. Anything I can do to expedite the process?

 

[Guro Harold]

Ok, new one.
I'm getting very frustrated with the fact that my wrists will not do complete circles.

What skill or technique are trying to execute?

 

[Flatlander]

Not sure of name, call it "stick goes around in circle, perpedicular to ground, beside me on right". Also, fan motion abiniko wouldn't hit anybody in front of me unless there is much elbow movement, and even then, wouldn't really hurt much.

 

[Flatlander]

I can't see you Harold. Are you invisible? Why is everyone going invisible these days?