Tournament/Competition Question

[neoinarien]

Hello all,

I imagine there are special CMA tournaments with forms, sparring, etc.

How often, if ever, are CMA practioners welcomed into 'less restrictive' tournaments where TKD, karate, etc, may all meet and compete in forms, sparring, breaking etc?

 

[HG1]

Hello all,

I imagine there are special CMA tournaments with forms, sparring, etc.

How often, if ever, are CMA practioners welcomed into 'less restrictive' tournaments where TKD, karate, etc, may all meet and compete in forms, sparring, breaking etc?

Yes, there are CMA tournaments through out the year. Most post tourney dates in either Kung Fu Magazine or Inside Kung-Fu.

Going to non-CMA tourneys is fun to meet fellow martial artists. The judging can seem as biased but I think it's not knowing what to look for. Sparring goes a little better. It's amusing to hear from Karateka that are surprised we fight.

From a business stand point it would be foolish not to let someone compete in a open tournament. A lot of $$$ is put up front by the organization running the competition. The more martial artists entered equals more entrance fees, spectators in the stands & hot dogs sold.

 

[jks9199]

Yes, there are CMA tournaments through out the year. Most post tourney dates in either Kung Fu Magazine or Inside Kung-Fu.

Going to non-CMA tourneys is fun to meet fellow martial artists. The judging can seem as biased but I think it's not knowing what to look for. Sparring goes a little better. It's amusing to hear from Karateka that are surprised we fight.

From a business stand point it would be foolish not to let someone compete in a open tournament. A lot of $$$ is put up front by the organization running the competition. The more martial artists entered equals more entrance fees, spectators in the stands & hot dogs sold.

An open tournament is just that -- open. Anyone can show up. Unfortunately, many of them have been rather biased and political, in my experience. Sometimes, this is innocent. For example, I just attended a very well run, very fair open tournament 2 weeks ago -- but because a lot of the people there were Isshin ryu, they had a tendency to look for Isshin ryu in forms and fighting. I'm not suggesting deliberate bias, but more that they were more likely to see what they were used to and familiar with -- just like I'd be. But -- sometimes, it's blatant. I remember one "open" tournament where it was quite clear that the only people winning were from one school... which just happened to be the school that sponsored the event.

In my experience, the good open tournaments can be a lot of fun, and a good chance to meet people from different styles, and see different ways of doing things. The bad ones? They consume your money, and offer no learning experience in return.

Many styles have closed or internal tournaments to allow them a chance to do things their way. These are good learning experiences, and can have a great "family" feel depending on the style.

 

[neoinarien]

I haven't competed in any major or regional tournaments in about ten years, and the ones I did compete in were all closed TKD or open to karate as well. As such, I know little to nothing about the 'standard' open tournament.

Point contact, no punching to head, kick to head worth 2, full force for adults... sound about right?

Oh, and where are the open tournaments listed? A particular magazine or website? Or is all the information found in the kung fu magazines?

 

[7starmarc]

Some from my school have attempted some local tournaments, but they were largely a disappointment. The rules were not layed out well, and the promoters assumed that everyone sparred in the same fashion they did (in the "home" style), creating some problems with scoring as well as the definition of "legal" moves. I'm not just talking about pressure points or "legal" striking areas, but the methods of takedowns and throws as well. All in all, the representatives of our school did OK, but felt somewhat restricted and a little confused by the rules in place.

As a side note for 7 star PM in most tournaments, the use of padding/gloves makes for an interesting challenge for us. Since many of our traps and other maneuvers depends on a working grasp (hook or otherwise), protective gear can mess with our techniques. Not to mention what can gloves do to our sensitivity. I've never tried the MMA style (4 oz ?) gloves, maybe they'd be better in some ways. But the opponent may not like that situation much, as it would appear that we're always trying to rip they're gloves off or use them for better grip (which, in some ways, we would be).

Over all, I'd say it would be pretty difficult to find a level playing field for competition without reducing things to a free-for-all. And, in this day and age, I doubt you would find too many venues or promoters who would take on that kind of competition in any fashion due to liability and legality issues.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Don't do tournaments and I never have. Nothing against them they are just not for me.

I use to train at a CMA school that allowed us to spare on Saturdays and it was multiple styles and it was great, but it was not a tournament

EDIT

I wanted to add I once was invited, with a group of other CMA people, to a TKD school for some sparing. When it came time to spar the teacher gave us a lot of rules of where we could hit and what we could and could not do. I decided not to get involved. When the TKD teacher later asked me why I told him, I cannot grab, which means no Qinna, I cannot kick or punch anywhere but the Chest which rules out most of my striking, I cannot stick or follow because you call it holding and won’t allow it. You have basically told me that I have to fight sport TDK not CMA and I don't train TKD so why would I spar.

 

[ggg214]

in my place, tournaments or open competitions are always sanda. there were some attempts to establish a tournaments for Chinese traditional or internal MA, i should say it may attract some fans, but at last they all become wrestling. this is a big misleading.

 

[Formosa Neijia]

Hello all,

I imagine there are special CMA tournaments with forms, sparring, etc.

How often, if ever, are CMA practioners welcomed into 'less restrictive' tournaments where TKD, karate, etc, may all meet and compete in forms, sparring, breaking etc?

IME this didn't go well. You will always be misunderstood by the majority of karate guys that run these things.

I competed in the black belt division of a mid-West open tournament with my choy lay fut dragon form and nobody knew what to do with it. I got third place behind two idiots whose karate forms involved lots of loud kiais and basic techniques but little else. But hey, they could scream and I didn't so they must have been better.

Sparring won't be much better IMO unless you do that junk called point sparring. You're basically expected to block things that have no hope of landing on you or they'll call a point.

In case you can't tell, I'm a bit bitter over the experience. I ended up looking like an idiot and I didn't appreciate that.

 

[kidswarrior]

IME this didn't go well. You will always be misunderstood by the majority of karate guys that run these things.

I competed in the black belt division of a mid-West open tournament with my choy lay fut dragon form and nobody knew what to do with it. I got third place behind two idiots whose karate forms involved lots of loud kiais and basic techniques but little else. But hey, they could scream and I didn't so they must have been better.

Sparring won't be much better IMO unless you do that junk called point sparring. You're basically expected to block things that have no hope of landing on you or they'll call a point.

In case you can't tell, I'm a bit bitter over the experience. I ended up looking like an idiot and I didn't appreciate that.

This, along with Xue Sheng's post, explains why I stay away from these things. And especially regarding sparring: had a CMA GM who said, We don't spar. And told us if someone pushes, you repeat it.

If they become obnoxious about insisting, he'd say, Okay, let's spar. When they would inevitably say, But you don't have your gear, the response was: I'm wearing it. Let's go. He didn't have point sparring in mind.

 

[SageGhost83]

If they become obnoxious about insisting, he'd say, Okay, let's spar. When they would inevitably say, But you don't have your gear, the response was: I'm wearing it. Let's go. He didn't have point sparring in mind.

Sounds like my kind of party! It is funny how some things are labelled "sparring" when in my opinion, they are far from such. I currently train TKD, but I never really took the sparring seriously. Perhaps because I had years of Wing Chun "sparring" and putting on so much padding while being limited in what I could do just simply wasn't realistic enough for me. I am not much for TKD "sparring", I choose to focus more on the forms and one steps. Once you have done some real, full contact, no pads sparring, there is no way that you can settle for less than the real deal.

 

[SageGhost83]

Sounds like my kind of party! It is funny how some things are labelled "sparring" when in my opinion, they are far from such. I currently train TKD, but I never really took the sparring seriously. Perhaps because I had years of Wing Chun "sparring" and putting on so much padding while being limited in what I could do just simply wasn't realistic enough for me. I am not much for TKD "sparring", I choose to focus more on the forms and one steps. Once you have done some real, full contact, no pads sparring, there is no way that you can settle for less than the real deal.

To clarify, I wasn't taking a shot at TKD (why would I, it is my own art :lol:!) or anything. I consider TKD style sparring (the olympic brand, as that is what I participate in at the moment) as more of a game that is played for fun, and I consider the full contact, none padded, close range sparring of my WC class to be more of what I consider "sparring". I enjoyed them both for what they were, but the olympic style is a bit of a let down for me having come from WC prior to starting TKD, just as the Shotokan sparring seemed to pale in comparison when I got into WC. I didn't really do too much sparring in Togakure-Ryu Ninjutsu. Maybe it will grow on me, or maybe I will find a Traditional Taekwondo school that offers something more in line with my expectations of sparring.