Thrusting Prongs
- Thread starter Maltair
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michaeledward
Grandmaster
I have it written up as :
Defense against a 'Front Bear Hug - Arms Pinned'
1. Step back with your right foot (to 6 O'Clock) into a left modified forward bow, having only your right foot move back and not the upper body (leaning forward).
Simultaneously, thrust both of your thumbs up and to opponents groin.
2. Strike opponent's groing with your right knee as your left hand circles over and on top of your opponent's right arm (forming the shape of the crane) and pins (with the assistance of your anchored left elbow) your opponent's right are to you, while cocking your right hand to your right hip.
3. Deliver a right inward elbow to opponent's face (or ribs depending on the size of your opponent).
However, when we run the technique, it seems I am craning my left arm before the knee, rather than at the same time.
Mike
Defense against a 'Front Bear Hug - Arms Pinned'
1. Step back with your right foot (to 6 O'Clock) into a left modified forward bow, having only your right foot move back and not the upper body (leaning forward).
Simultaneously, thrust both of your thumbs up and to opponents groin.
2. Strike opponent's groing with your right knee as your left hand circles over and on top of your opponent's right arm (forming the shape of the crane) and pins (with the assistance of your anchored left elbow) your opponent's right are to you, while cocking your right hand to your right hip.
3. Deliver a right inward elbow to opponent's face (or ribs depending on the size of your opponent).
However, when we run the technique, it seems I am craning my left arm before the knee, rather than at the same time.
Mike
Try thinking of the foot stepping back as a very small step, just to give a little clearance, but primarily to rebound off the floor into the knee. Try less of a "settle" into the shallow forward bow, but a bounce off the floor. The timing of the suppressing check (crane) and knee should then occur almost simultaneously.
Note: there is a principle called stabilized assistance, which means that when you utilize the suppressing check, you are loading some of your weight on him and assisting your own balance. It also ensures the target is less likely to be moved, and you are less likely to get a knee to the groin since you do "straddle the paddle" in this technique.
I have seen it other ways, but this is the one I choose to teach.
-Michael
Edited to clarify (and correct a word)
Note: there is a principle called stabilized assistance, which means that when you utilize the suppressing check, you are loading some of your weight on him and assisting your own balance. It also ensures the target is less likely to be moved, and you are less likely to get a knee to the groin since you do "straddle the paddle" in this technique.
I have seen it other ways, but this is the one I choose to teach.
-Michael
Edited to clarify (and correct a word)
K
KenpoMatt
Guest
This is basically how my school teaches it. We defnitely use the right leg as a strong brace to keep the attacker from toppling you over backwards. And, we wrap (crane) the left arm before firing the knee.
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MisterMike
Guest
Same here. Grab first.
My prongs go to the inner hip joint, at the top inside of the thighs to create distance/travel for the knee strike, which goes to the groin.
I also chamber the fist higher than the hip so that you get a "pointier" back elbow strike and better line of sight for the face shot.
I also add in a buckle to the inside of the right knee.
My prongs go to the inner hip joint, at the top inside of the thighs to create distance/travel for the knee strike, which goes to the groin.
I also chamber the fist higher than the hip so that you get a "pointier" back elbow strike and better line of sight for the face shot.
I also add in a buckle to the inside of the right knee.
satans.barber
Master Black Belt
Thrusting Prongs
Front bear hug, arms pinned
1. With feet together, step back into a left forwards stance as you strike and push the pressure points at the sides of the opponent's groin,
2. Hook your left arm over the opponent's right arm and bear down on their elbow, keeping your own elbow down to protect your ribs, and maintain this lock for the rest of the technique,
3. Right outwards handsword to the side of the neck,
4. Hold the neck and pull the opponent into a right forward knee to the stomach,
5. Without planting down, execute a side blade kick to the inside of the opponent's left knee and scrape down their leg to the floor, planting into a short right fighting stance,
6. Finish with a right hooking elbow to the face.
Front bear hug, arms pinned
1. With feet together, step back into a left forwards stance as you strike and push the pressure points at the sides of the opponent's groin,
2. Hook your left arm over the opponent's right arm and bear down on their elbow, keeping your own elbow down to protect your ribs, and maintain this lock for the rest of the technique,
3. Right outwards handsword to the side of the neck,
4. Hold the neck and pull the opponent into a right forward knee to the stomach,
5. Without planting down, execute a side blade kick to the inside of the opponent's left knee and scrape down their leg to the floor, planting into a short right fighting stance,
6. Finish with a right hooking elbow to the face.
M
M F
Guest
I m not seeing where you get your hands free to execute number three. Please expand on this part of the tech. Thanks.
michaeledward
Grandmaster
If somebody sticks their thumbs into your groin ... or the pressure point at the inside top of the thigh (just to the side of the male genitalia) ... you are going to let go ... Promise !!!!
Really!!!
This technique is very interesting for that reason alone. When somebody runs it on me ... I jump up about three feet .... Woo!!! .. kinda like Super Mario
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Go for the bladder. To quote my first teacher, Toni Wasserberger, who I believe was quoting Mr. Parker, "If they pee all over themselves, they're likely to get embarassed and lose interest in fighting."
satans.barber
Master Black Belt
Yes, this is the idea. If someone hits/pushes/touches your groin it's a natural reaction to withdraw (well, in a fight sense anyway
), as soon as they do you lock them down with the arm pin and let the rest of the strikes fly,Ian.
S
Shiatsu
Guest
I would like to see it done a t full speed, with a non compliant attacker before I believe that two thumb prongs will make the attacker retreat.
OP
OP
Maltair
Blue Belt
I'm with Shiatsu on this one.
In our school, we are taught to use our prongs (aka chicken beaks-fingers and thumbs togeather) to the kidney, or to palm strike the kidneys. My Sifu even showed me how you can grab the skin over the kidneys and twist, boy that hurts.
The shot to the groin or the pressure point is a hard target to hit effectivly when in close quarters like that.
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rmcrobertson
Guest
It's a misunderstanding to think that this techniqque is meant to maake anybody retreat. In the first place, they're not charging--not even ideally, because why in the heck would you stand there right in front of an attacker with your little thumbs sticking out?
In the second, if you keep your elbows in as you step back, and especially if you let the attacker squush in on your arms (which is what's going on anyway, since the tech is used against a bear hug, arms pinned in and down at your sides), it's going to be hard to miss.
In the second, if you keep your elbows in as you step back, and especially if you let the attacker squush in on your arms (which is what's going on anyway, since the tech is used against a bear hug, arms pinned in and down at your sides), it's going to be hard to miss.
We practice this technique with double thumb strikes to the groin, which hurts like the dickens. The pain is nice, but it's not really what I focus on in the first move of this technique. By dropping back into a forward bow and bracing my fists against my opponent's groin, which causes him to bend forward at the hips, I create a wedge which breaks his hold on me. I have worked this against bigger stronger opponents and seen it work for others. It is the combination of a strong stance, a straight back, and folding my opponent over his hip girdle with the thumb strikes which creates the wedge needed to free yourself. From there its just blunt trauma. Yay!
-Rob
-Rob
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Shiatsu
Guest
Like I said it is one of the techniques that I would like to see done at full speed against a opponent that is non compliant.
I don't have a problem with performing thrusting prongs. The thumb thrust may not drive them back totally but the thrusting knee strike sure will.:asian:
Without a definate number of kenpoists on here you'll probably see each technique done slightly different by each kenpoist here.
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MisterMike
Guest
Does anyone know what situations this attack would actually happen?
I know there are a few, but how realistic do you think it is to begin with?
I know there are a few, but how realistic do you think it is to begin with?
My personal opinion about a frong bear hug arms pinned may be different than others view points. When I wrestled in school we used the front bear hug to take a person down by clasping our hands behind the small of the back while pushing our head against the chest region. This creates a serious amount of pain and puts the person back on their heels immediately if done properly. When you clasp your hands in the small of the back you "must" pull upward to make the hips come toward you and force the upper torso backward. This has been tested by me on the mats and I've had no one stay standing while I've done this in this particular manner.
However, your common street thug I seriously doubt have this kind of info.
S
Shiatsu
Guest
Unless they are a former wrestler.:shrug:
