Those pills that aid cartiledge growth...

[Blooming Lotus]

what is sam-e and what does it do

http://www.bestsame.com/whatissame.html

sounds like exactly the same proccess as msm to me ( line your with sulfurs ( aminos or proteins ) chemically heat and strip ( refine / distill ) leaving the best quality and ph recovery bio - fluid .

Never heard of sam-e to be frank, but by logic there's no reason it shouldn't work???

BL

 

[Ceicei]

OK. A couple of things to be aware of are source, MED (minimum effective dose), and type.

Let' start with type. MSM, Glucosamine and Chondroitin work well in the SULFATE forms, because they are sulfur-group donors, which the body uses to rebuild it's own glucosaminoglycans ("gag's" for short). The "Glucosamine Hydrochloride" stuff pretty much just gets excreted as waste, b/c it doesn't donate the all-important "SULFATE". Read the label of the cheap ones.

Dr. Dave Crouch

I have a question:

If I have a sulfa drug allergy, would taking any of these OTC (MSM, Glucosamine, or Chondroitin) pose a problem for me?

- Ceicei

 

[Blooming Lotus]

being that sulfur is a biproduct of protein and both are essential to life and fuction, how amazing 1stly and secondly, yes.

BL

 

[Blooming Lotus]

have just read an awesome article on L-Arginine ( a growth hormone producing protein amino acid ) which you can find here http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/lar_0024.shtml

which should also help in lieu of msm. L-Arginine uses the same principal as msm although instead of using the protein overload , heat and strip( or eliminate ) catabolising excess and breakdown metabolism of the remaining protein aminos process , L-Arginine comes pre-broken down to its most basic and bio available form to cause a range of benifits as I described earlier in relation to msm.

I think I still prefer the msm effect, because if we have to eat anyway, it's a good way to go. If you can't swing the process yourself though, this is an extremely great option that will provide you with the same benifits.

have a read and enjoy.

cheers

Blooming Lotus

 

[lhommedieu]

I started taking 1500 mg's of Glucosamine and Chondroitin in sulfate form yesterday. They are combined in one tablet for about $38/60 - so that works out to about $19/month.

I'm finding that at 45 I don't bounce back from injuries as well anymore, and I had heard good things about Glucosamine from both of my teachers. Anyhow, I'll write back in three months and let you know if there's been any change.

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[Blooming Lotus]

glucosamine and condrite, particularly as a sulfate is good. Just a round about way of creating the L-Argenine / msm effect really isn't it. I'm sure you'll improve regardless . We'll look forward to hearing how you go.



BL

 

[Jade Tigress]

I have a question:

If I have a sulfa drug allergy, would taking any of these OTC (MSM, Glucosamine, or Chondroitin) pose a problem for me?

- Ceicei

I'd like to know too. I have a severe sulfa drug allergy. I have taken Glucosamine/Chondroitin without problems but have stayed away from MSM because the bottle cautioned those with sulfa allergies...

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I'd like to know too. I have a severe sulfa drug allergy. I have taken Glucosamine/Chondroitin without problems but have stayed away from MSM because the bottle cautioned those with sulfa allergies...

Good questions. I THINK, metabolically, they process differently. However, I sure as heck don't want to be the guy who said it was fine, then sent you off on an allergic adventure. Let me look into this a bit so I can provide an informed opine, and not mislead you.

Dave

 

[Bloomingtianshilotus]

Spot on and if you check this link out

http://arthritis-msm-supplement.discount-vitamins-herbs.net/

you'll see that the sulfur in msm and thelikes are more akin to the sulfur we produce in our bodies naturally as opposed to the type found in sulfuric drugs.

I also came across an msm, glucosamine, chondroitin combo product in a health store the other day and ran somew thoughts by the presiding naturapath re : the differences of the glucosime/chondriotin combo and the msm additive, as well as the L-Argenine similarity and the protein amino intake /upload and metabolism/catabolism differences and similarities of it all ( then asked a pharmicist just to be sure we were on the same chemistry page ), and what it basically came to was with the glucosamine/ chondroitin combo , you end up with the same active aminos for tissue / muscle joint repair and so forth as you do in L-argenine , msm and the protein overload -catabolism and breakdown flush process I'm so fond of advocating ( though at different stages of metabolism and enzymic breakdown and uptake bioavailabilty quality) but msm is more reputed for its analgesic effect as is the protein cataboloism, so we all agreed that in the prior stages to the last enyzemic breakdown ( that you really only get with the last 3) , there is a crucial chemical reaction produced when those protein enzymes bond and synthesise that seem responsible for pain relief and have higher anti-inflammatory value than just the raw and most basic amino that you get from the former 2. The msm addition in this instance is largely for market value when combined with the other 2, but certainly makes no difference than having it on its own over the 2 part combination.

there's a great link here about protease enzymes and relief from pain and inflammation.
http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionsports.htm

the L-argenine link again to compare notes
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/lar_0024.shtml

and another on arthritis / glucosamine and chondrotin etc

http://www.glucosamine-arthritis.org/introduction.html

interesting stuff, so enjoy your reads

Hope it clarifies a little

cheers

Blooming Lotus

 

[NTDeveloper]

I started taking 1500 mg's of Glucosamine and Chondroitin in sulfate form yesterday. They are combined in one tablet for about $38/60 - so that works out to about $19/month.

I'm finding that at 45 I don't bounce back from injuries as well anymore, and I had heard good things about Glucosamine from both of my teachers. Anyhow, I'll write back in three months and let you know if there's been any change.

Best,

Steve Lamade

Steve,

Wondering how the GC supplement worked. Any marked improvement?

 

[lhommedieu]

I would say yes. My lower back was in pretty bad shape a back in Nov/Dec and I starting taking the supplement along with liquid liver pills. I'm able to run now and my martial arts workouts are getting a lot easier - although I know that I'm still not close to 100% recovered yet.

Most of the damage came as a result of training injuries and is chronic in nature. The typical agents (stress, overwork, cold weather) cause it to flair up every year or so. What bothered me was the amount of time it was taking to calm back down again. I normally treat this with Chinese medicine but my schedule had been so hectic that I was unable to schedule with someone and frankly, too busy to treat myself - so I started taking these supplements to see what would happen.

I would definitely recommend these supplements as part of an overall treatment program for chronic injuries. (Would anyone say that the liquid versions are more effective than the pills?) I don't think that it's a stand-alone therapy: if there are other modalities available then I think you should include them as part of an over-all package - that's what I do, anyway, and it seems to be working.

Another thing that I've found is that it pays to shop around on the internet and to know good companies that can provide quality products inexpensively; cost in a typical "health food" store is typically 3-5 times what you pay if you know for what you are shopping.

Best,

Steve

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Save your money on the liquid forms. Solid vs Liquid does not cange the delivery mechanism to the body; still metabolizes through the same pathways.

There are some good TCM patent herbal combos for low back pain aggravated by cold, etc. If you're interested, I'll post the namers of a few, and some of the companies I think make the best. I'm in the odd position of being a rehab and sports med chiroprctor with a bad back. I know, from a manual medicine approach, exactly what needs to be done to my back to help it, but can't reach that way. So, if friends and colleagues are unavailable, I use these herbal meds.

Being in motion, though, is your best bet. Episodic back pain comes and goes by its very nature. Staying in shape and avoiding triggers (shoveling snow in flexion-rotation??) will help keep the number and severity of episodes down, as well as facilitate faster recovery times.

Tchuss!

D.

 

[lhommedieu]

Thanks for the response. You said:

I know, from a manual medicine approach, exactly what needs to be done to my back to help it, but can't reach that way. So, if friends and colleagues are unavailable, I use these herbal meds.
D.

I know what you're saying - and would appreciate the information re. patent herbals.

Best,


Steve