Those pills that aid cartiledge growth...
- Thread starter Adept
- Start date
glucosamine chondroitin or glucosamine sulfate
I've taken the chondroitin version and I did notice an improvement in my knees...whether it was psychosomatic or physically caused by the supplement I can't say...and I don't really care. They feel better and that is what is important to me.
I've taken the chondroitin version and I did notice an improvement in my knees...whether it was psychosomatic or physically caused by the supplement I can't say...and I don't really care. They feel better and that is what is important to me.
Glucosamine/Chondroitin/& MSM. I'd get something with all 3 in it. I haven't had any side effects and anyone I've been associated with in the gym/studio hasn't either. I wouldn't go to your local drug store either go to a kmart/wal-mart/meijer they will be cheaper there for the same thing.
I actually get mine for www.vitamins.com they are very reasonable on many things.
I actually get mine for www.vitamins.com they are very reasonable on many things.
INDYFIGHTER
Purple Belt
I picked up a huge bottle of glucosamine chondroitin at Sam's Club and I think it helps. I took two a day for about six weeks and now I just take one. My knees don't pop as much or get sore anymore. It was recommended by several of the older people at my school.
I've been taking glucosamine supplements "over-the-counter" for about 4 yrs now, and they've definitely helped my knees! (in addition to drinking more water everyday) My local grocery store has started selling a generic version of the same stuff, so that helps me save $. Good Luck, and I hope it works for you too!
Sincerely,
Gin-Gin
Sincerely,
Gin-Gin
OP
OP
Adept
Master Black Belt
Well, I suppose it cant hurt. I've been morbidly afraid of all things fish related since my childhood, when my father used to dose me and my sisters with cod-liver oil (in the disgusting liquid form) whenever we had any kind of ailment. Stubbed your toe? Cod liver oil. Got a cold? Cod liver oil. Broken your arm? Cod liver oil. Dear god that is awful stuff.bignick said:
punisher73
Senior Master
I remember reading something in a fitness magazine, that talked about how Glucosamine and Chondriton Sulfate (sp?) were the only supplements that have actually held up in independant lab studies and with results that could be replicated as such.
I have used these supplements and could tell alot of difference while taking them. By a good brand, I got mine on sale at GNC for a reasonable price. I also tried a "generic" brand from Walmart and could tell the difference between the two. The generic brand was still better than nothing but my knees didn't feel as good as when I had the other brand. So try and do some research and make sure that whoever you buy from is actually putting what they claim on the label in the pill. ALOT of companies don't match their label claims when it comes to supplements
I have used these supplements and could tell alot of difference while taking them. By a good brand, I got mine on sale at GNC for a reasonable price. I also tried a "generic" brand from Walmart and could tell the difference between the two. The generic brand was still better than nothing but my knees didn't feel as good as when I had the other brand. So try and do some research and make sure that whoever you buy from is actually putting what they claim on the label in the pill. ALOT of companies don't match their label claims when it comes to supplements
I have used glucosamine sulfate for years-actually 7. Last year started taking MSM with it. It takes about 3 months to get into your system enough to see results. The glucosamine sulfate is from shellfish so if you have an allergic reaction to that take the other kind, glucosamine chondroitin. Sulfate is the easiest on the stomach and the most soluable, usable though. I have taken Shaklee brand which is excellent but expensive, also another through a health catalog but that was also expensive considering shipping too. Now I get it at the health food section in a grocery store. "Now" brand. Be careful of Walmart's as mentioned before, it is not equal at all. I noticed a big difference so I was glad to find these at our local grocery store. Mine are about $30. for 240 capsules. I take them twice a day as my knees are VERY bad. BTW glucoasamine and ibuprofen do not do well together so take them at different times of the day for full effect. TW
P
pakua
Guest
Trouble with that stuff is it makes a hell of a mess of your clothes and people in the elevator (or as I would call it, the lift) look at you funny.bignick said:
But seriously folks- glad I read this thread because my knees are older than the rest of me, so I'll go and talk to Mike my local pharmacist and see what he has with this stuff in.
(when Sifu says "Listen to your body" he must have meant my knees!)
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
OK. A couple of things to be aware of are source, MED (minimum effective dose), and type.
Let' start with type. MSM, Glucosamine and Chondroitin work well in the SULFATE forms, because they are sulfur-group donors, which the body uses to rebuild it's own glucosaminoglycans ("gag's" for short). The "Glucosamine Hydrochloride" stuff pretty much just gets excreted as waste, b/c it doesn't donate the all-important "SULFATE". Read the label of the cheap ones. Hydrochloride forms are easier to manufacture (read: Cheaper), and so the cheaper bottles/brands are usually the hydrochloride forms. Should sound familiar...salt? Jury is still out as to whether it really hikes BP in people with sodium sensitive hypertension, but why bother fionding out...it's missing the sulfur. Get the sulfate forms, and if your budget will allow it, add SAM-e to your regimen. In the US, you either hear the negatives waaay blown outta proportion, or false/grandiose claims blown outta proportion. Throughout Europe (France, Germany, Belgium, England) they actually throw funds at quality research of nutritional alernatives. SAM-e has been shown in some of the better quality of these studies to "supercharge" the effect of Glucosamnie/Chondroitin. Why? MORE SULFUR! (in digestable form)
Source. If you're going to bother with this, do it right, and spend a little extra dough. Some of the generics, even if they are the sulfate forms, pretty much use inferior sources, or bottle whatever was swept up off the floor of the quality places, so to speak. Buy a better brand. Most of the brands I use with patients aren't available to the public. I know some of the guys running Twin Labs; they make quality stuff. Trader Joes SULFATE form is one of those undiscovered gems -- better quality than many of the nutriceutical companies, at a fraction of the price.
Dose. The only quality studies regarding dose-specific results, measured under the microscopes they use for such things, shows a minimum of 1200 mg/day of glucosamine sulfate is needed to generate active, measurable results. That means, if you're taking 400 mg/day, and feel better, it's in yer head. Not a bad place for a thing, mind you, considering the success of placebo's in many drug trials (sometimes producing same or better results than the drugs they're up against), but not biochemically/metabolically active. 1200 mg's a day to halt the degradation of hyaline cartilage, and/or initiate the restoration of new articular tissues at a greater-than-normal rate.
If you buy combos (i.e., GS, CS, MSM all in one tab) read the label to make sure you are getting the MED of each. May actually be cheaper to buy them individually, and take a vitamin cocktail in the AM and PM. Careful, though: high sulfur content burps taste really bad. Kinda like someone farted in your mouth (especially with the addition of SAM-e). Don't talk to anyone, and let it represent to you a sign that you're on the right track, and getting the MED you need for real change.
Happy hunting,
Dr. Dave Crouch
Let' start with type. MSM, Glucosamine and Chondroitin work well in the SULFATE forms, because they are sulfur-group donors, which the body uses to rebuild it's own glucosaminoglycans ("gag's" for short). The "Glucosamine Hydrochloride" stuff pretty much just gets excreted as waste, b/c it doesn't donate the all-important "SULFATE". Read the label of the cheap ones. Hydrochloride forms are easier to manufacture (read: Cheaper), and so the cheaper bottles/brands are usually the hydrochloride forms. Should sound familiar...salt? Jury is still out as to whether it really hikes BP in people with sodium sensitive hypertension, but why bother fionding out...it's missing the sulfur. Get the sulfate forms, and if your budget will allow it, add SAM-e to your regimen. In the US, you either hear the negatives waaay blown outta proportion, or false/grandiose claims blown outta proportion. Throughout Europe (France, Germany, Belgium, England) they actually throw funds at quality research of nutritional alernatives. SAM-e has been shown in some of the better quality of these studies to "supercharge" the effect of Glucosamnie/Chondroitin. Why? MORE SULFUR! (in digestable form)
Source. If you're going to bother with this, do it right, and spend a little extra dough. Some of the generics, even if they are the sulfate forms, pretty much use inferior sources, or bottle whatever was swept up off the floor of the quality places, so to speak. Buy a better brand. Most of the brands I use with patients aren't available to the public. I know some of the guys running Twin Labs; they make quality stuff. Trader Joes SULFATE form is one of those undiscovered gems -- better quality than many of the nutriceutical companies, at a fraction of the price.
Dose. The only quality studies regarding dose-specific results, measured under the microscopes they use for such things, shows a minimum of 1200 mg/day of glucosamine sulfate is needed to generate active, measurable results. That means, if you're taking 400 mg/day, and feel better, it's in yer head. Not a bad place for a thing, mind you, considering the success of placebo's in many drug trials (sometimes producing same or better results than the drugs they're up against), but not biochemically/metabolically active. 1200 mg's a day to halt the degradation of hyaline cartilage, and/or initiate the restoration of new articular tissues at a greater-than-normal rate.
If you buy combos (i.e., GS, CS, MSM all in one tab) read the label to make sure you are getting the MED of each. May actually be cheaper to buy them individually, and take a vitamin cocktail in the AM and PM. Careful, though: high sulfur content burps taste really bad. Kinda like someone farted in your mouth (especially with the addition of SAM-e). Don't talk to anyone, and let it represent to you a sign that you're on the right track, and getting the MED you need for real change.
Happy hunting,
Dr. Dave Crouch
Marginal
Senior Master
bignick said:
One of my dogs developed arthritis in her shoulder. She was tender to the touch, and coudln't put weight on her leg. The vet perscribed half a dose of coated asprin which worked, but she started suffering from nosebleeds, so the vet switched her over to glucosamine, which worked just as well as the apsrin.
Long story short, it's not psychosomatic.
OP
OP
Adept
Master Black Belt
Okay, the capsules I picked up each contain 500mg of Glucosamine Sulfate. So I will be taking three per day, to get over the 1200mg mark required. They cost me $27AU, which is around $20US for 200 capsules.
Forgive my ignorance, but what is SAM-e?
Once again, thanks for all the help.
Forgive my ignorance, but what is SAM-e?
Once again, thanks for all the help.
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Copied this from the Jarrow website (also one of the better brands available to the public):Adept said:
Contains More of the Active S,S Form
SAM-e (S-Adenosylmethionine) is a chiral molecule and therefore consists of two forms: (S,S) SAM-e and (R,S) SAM-e. The biologically active form is the (S,S) structure, while the (R,S) structure is biologically inactive.
SAM-e is an amino acid derivative that has been clinically proven to benefit brain, joint and liver function. Found in all living cells, SAM-e is also called "activated" methionine (an essential amino acid) since it is formed by the combining of ATP with methionine. SAM-e has undergone dozens of trials involving thousands of patients. Researchers studying the beneficial effects of SAM-e have identified the following benefits of SAM-e:
Joint Strength
SAM-e supports the production of healthy connective tissue through transulfuration. In this process, critical components of connective tissue, including glucosamine and the chondroitin sulfates, are sulfated by SAM-e metabolites.
Brain Metabolism
SAM-e methylation reactions are involved in the synthesis of neurotransmitters such as L-dopa, dopamine and related hormones, epinephrine and phosphatidylcholine (a component of lecithin).
Longevity
Methylation of DNA appears to be important in the suppression of errors in DNA replication. Demethylation of DNA is considered a contributor to the aging process. Proper methylation through substances such as SAM-e positively influences longevity.
Liver
SAM-e metabolism supports the synthesis of glutathione (GSH) and glutathione-dependent enzymes (glutathione peroxidase and glutathione-S-transferase), which are substances important for liver function.
KKK, how is that sold on the market? Or where? I don't think I've seen anything with Sam-E on the label. I'm all up for anything for joints and longevity sounds good too. TW
Blooming Lotus
Purple Belt
A sammich :idunno:
anyway, the sulfate is definately the better choice. If you know about msm and how it works ( or even how to create a nutural alternative with the same effect which if you want more on , is likely going to be a whole other thread) , you'll understand that it is the perfect compliment and aides in creating the bio-fluidic consitencey that these principals rely on. Nice advice.
BL
btw : how many ppl here have studied hm or med science formally before??? Only asking because that way, If I want a sport science / med-rant in future , I know exactly where to direct it........
cheers maers
Blooming Lotus
anyway, the sulfate is definately the better choice. If you know about msm and how it works ( or even how to create a nutural alternative with the same effect which if you want more on , is likely going to be a whole other thread) , you'll understand that it is the perfect compliment and aides in creating the bio-fluidic consitencey that these principals rely on. Nice advice.
BL
btw : how many ppl here have studied hm or med science formally before??? Only asking because that way, If I want a sport science / med-rant in future , I know exactly where to direct it........
cheers maers
Blooming Lotus
I seen Sam-E for the first time today. Very odd that I read this thread earlier today and shop at the same grocery store every week. I've looked down the vitamin aisle more times than I care to. Anyhow all I can say about Sam-E is whoa.......that stuff is about a buck a pill/tablet/capsule. I'd really like to try this stuff for my knee but since my wife has lost her job I can't really afford more expenses. If anyone takes this I'd like to hear about the results.
