There are no words

[Twin Fist]

there are no words to convey just how outraged I am by this story:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6089729.html

MOGADISHU, Somalia — A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery by Islamic militants, a human rights group said.




Trying to stay calm here, but it isnt easy.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Sick.

Being raped is not Adultery it is being a victim.

To kill a victim who is innocent is one of the most horrid acts mankind can commit on itself.

I can only hope that some sense of universal justice will prevail over this.

 

[grydth]

This atrocity isn't just a different justice system at work and it isn't a religion that must be honored.... rather it is a tortured perversion of both.

I must admit, though, how easy it was for the story to bring out savage feelings in this reader. Maybe its because I am the parent of a 13 year old girl, but my honest first emotions upon reading it were that anyone doing this to her would last taste a severed part of themselves and would last experience fire.

Could be we have the same savagery just beneath the surface.... or could be that fire is what it will take to burn this scourge in Somalia off the planet.

 

[MA-Caver]

This atrocity isn't just a different justice system at work and it isn't a religion that must be honored.... rather it is a tortured perversion of both.

I must admit, though, how easy it was for the story to bring out savage feelings in this reader. Maybe its because I am the parent of a 13 year old girl, but my honest first emotions upon reading it were that anyone doing this to her would last taste a severed part of themselves and would last experience fire.

Could be we have the same savagery just beneath the surface.... or could be that fire is what it will take to burn this scourge in Somalia off the planet.

If not Somalia then Saudi Arabia, isolated parts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and just about any Muslim state/country. They've been doing it that way for thousands of years. Are we so suddenly right and they're so wrong.
It IS horrifying to read/hear about things like this... but they thought differently. Just as we think nothing of girls going around in bikini's in their own front yards mowing the lawn they think it's scandalous. Perception.

But it is sad, very sad that they didn't take the girl's word for it that she was raped and jumped to the worse conclusion. I'd felt better if they at least had given her an investigation and an R-kit to confirm her story before taking her out and stoning her to death... not that I think stoning to death is right and not the death of a child. It's primitive but it is what is prescribed in their Koran.
True they do however, need to move out of the dark ages of the past and into the present.

So what are we going to do about it? Go to war with them? Police their religious beliefs? Call them terrorists? Invade their country and tell them how to live to OUR beliefs?

Somalia is among the world's most violent and impoverished countries. The nation of some 8 million people has not had a functioning government since warlords overthrew a dictator in 1991 then turned on each other.

A quarter of Somali children die before age 5; nearly every public institution has collapsed. Fighting is a daily occurrence, with violent deaths reported nearly every day.

Last time we tried policing this country U.S. service men were humiliated.
Eventually the people will get tired of their warlords and rise up themselves. If they want our help... they'll know who to ask.

 

[Archangel M]

It goes to show that the Disneyesque "one world"..."we are all the same"..."its a small world" philosophy is ********.

 

[grydth]

If not Somalia then Saudi Arabia, isolated parts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and just about any Muslim state/country. They've been doing it that way for thousands of years. Are we so suddenly right and they're so wrong.
It IS horrifying to read/hear about things like this... but they thought differently. Just as we think nothing of girls going around in bikini's in their own front yards mowing the lawn they think it's scandalous. Perception.

But it is sad, very sad that they didn't take the girl's word for it that she was raped and jumped to the worse conclusion. I'd felt better if they at least had given her an investigation and an R-kit to confirm her story before taking her out and stoning her to death... not that I think stoning to death is right and not the death of a child. It's primitive but it is what is prescribed in their Koran.
True they do however, need to move out of the dark ages of the past and into the present.

So what are we going to do about it? Go to war with them? Police their religious beliefs? Call them terrorists? Invade their country and tell them how to live to OUR beliefs?


Last time we tried policing this country U.S. service men were humiliated.
Eventually the people will get tired of their warlords and rise up themselves. If they want our help... they'll know who to ask.

Let's start with the bottom. In point of fact, if you are referring to the Bush/Clinton intervention , US servicemen were desecrated, not humiliated. Any careful analysis of the battle from a military sense shows our service personnel fought well and bravely, inflicting wildly disproportionate casualties. Had "Defense" Secretary Les Aspin not withheld M-1 tanks from our soldiers, they would likely have routed the Somalis. The only ones deserving of "humiliation" are Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton and Bush the Lesser - all of whom never understood that half measures get troops killed and missions failed.

It would never occur to me to allege that the barbaric practice here is common to all Arabs or all Muslims.... I am, franky, extremely disappointed to read such a thing here. These cannibals do not represent mainstream beliefs. In point of fact, you don't see such atrocities or beliefs from the vast majority of these people. No, this most assuredly is not your average Arab, Black or Muslim at work here. We don't need to convert the Middle East to our beliefs and practices because the huge majority do not subscribe to such things. Their beliefs will serve just fine.

Yes, this act so wrong. If one cannot concede that fact, is there any practice at all that's damnable? What if they'd cooked and eaten her afterwards? What if they'd used blades to cut apart all the women in her family - well, cuz they'd been doing it for centuries (as if that makes it better and not worse!).

No invasion needed. Our forces have been engaged periodically in Somalia against these militia groups, who by some amazing coincidence are allied with al Qaeda. There is also a piracy issue, which will also require force to handle. I simply suggest adding a couple of extra fire bombs for the child murderers.

 

[arnisador]

.

 

[Archangel M]

I simply suggest adding a couple of extra fire bombs for the child murderers.

Which will, of course, only hit women, children, senior citizen homes, baby formula factories and churches....it just irritates me when people cant see through that garbage for what it really is.

 

[grydth]

Some see only what they wish to see.... I can understand being critical and cynical about what our government puts out; what I can't understand is why anyone would then give unthinking and uncritical acceptance to whatever nonsense a regime like these churn out.

 

[Twin Fist]

Bradley's withstand RPG's better than troops on foot do.

but we are gettign way off topic.

the point is, the people that did this to this little girl barely deserve to be called human beings

 

[girlbug2]

Stories like this make my blood boil and I really want to hate them. I know however that I should have compassion on them. The only force that can change hearts and minds so radically to make those people see the error of their ways is Jesus, not bombs and tanks.

 

[Tez3]

The girl committed a crime in being raped, it's not that they didn't believe her, I expect they did but allowing yourself to be raped is a crime in many Muslim countries including Saudi Arabia and Dubai that well known playground of Westerners, there they don't stone anymore though, they use a firing squad.
It will need an internal revolution to make the clerics change these barbaric teachings along with as Bob said female circumcision, slavery and other things we consider against human rights. Preaching another religion at them one which itself can be intolerant isn't the answer nor is sending in armies, if anything both of these entrench the views held by these people.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

We've got 3-4 different tracks going on here. Lets refocus on the original toipc, and I'll see about getting the tangents split off onto their own threads to give them proper attention.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Living in the culture I live in and being brought up with certain believes this is a hard topic to read about. Basically my believes are not those of a person being brought up in that country nor of that religion.
Do I believe in religious freedom YES. Do I feel that people should be able to practice their religion YES. HOWEVER I can not condone the stoning of a child who has been raped. Nor can I condone other practices that MAKE people be tortured, killed, maimed, etc. for things that they did not willingly do.
Laws of a country are many times made because of the religious belief of the majority of the people.
To those living in a culture that follows such practices as mentioned in the first post I can only wish that they would revolt and war within their culture and country to bring about change. This will not happen because it is the men who are in the military and the men who set the rules in that country. The only way it would change at present time is if all the women revolted and left the country. We know the men would not allow this but would kill of many to prove their point and subject the women under even more stringent laws.

If we had that same law that allowed the child to be stoned in this country how many women would be put to death. If we stoned all women who committed adultery how many would be put to death. The law is not for us in the USA and I am sure most of the religions here do not condone adultery but we have learned to live with it and to modify our laws to preserve human rights

 

[shesulsa]

ADMIN NOTE:

We've got 3-4 different tracks going on here. Lets refocus on the original toipc, and I'll see about getting the tangents split off onto their own threads to give them proper attention.

This thread has been split three ways. The discussion of original topic - he girl who was killed for being raped - remains here.

The real story of Hawai'i discussion has been moved here.

The rest of the discussion on enforcing worldwide human rights has been moved here (note, one post has been copied from this thread due to its dual relevance).

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assist. Administrator

 

[MA-Caver]

Saw this trailer for a film that attacks the centuries old practice of stoning. Not American made as it would been too overly hyped and sensationalized but if possible a film that is a must see for those who are concerned about this situation in Muslim countries.
http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=Ah8Kaf...o.com/up/ynews?ch=4226715&cl=10526692&lang=en

I would imagine that it would have all the level of brutality of say... The Passion Of the Christ or Saving Private Ryan or some other films which go to lengths to get realism.
Glad that films like these are getting made... they help carry the message without over sensationalizing the actors/actresses and the event in question.