Then vs. Now Differences

[dvcochran]

I am wondering if anyone else sees differences in the TKD they practiced 20-30 years ago compared to today. Do you find it difficult sometimes in class when a less tenured instructor is leading class? Can you provide then vs. now examples of how your classes are different?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Train smarter - not harder. We did stuff that was not great for the body like certain stretches and endless kicking on heavier and heavier bags. Each instructor can be better teachers than the instructors they had because they had better instructors than their predecessors. Access to information is so much better with the internet and videos. (I guess I am thinking more like 3+ years ago. ) we also owe a deb of gratitude to thinks like MMA fights to show us what works. Of course their is still no substitute for experience.

 

[Buka]

I think it depends on the particular school. A little over thirty years ago I was training Tae-Kwon-Do (as well as American Karate). But the Tae-Kwon-Do I was training was completely different than any other Tae-Kwon-Do I saw back then. Or now for that matter.

 

[Flying Crane]

I am reminded of one of my teachers talking about his early days in the 1960s and 1970s. Sounds like they basically beat the crap out of each other. He has had both hips replaced, not to mention shoulder issues.

People like to reminisce about the “good old days”. I don’t buy it. People gotta train smart. Beating the crap out of each other is not training smart.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Sounds like they basically beat the crap out of each other. He has had both hips replaced, not to mention shoulder issues.

Made for some great memories at the typical small storefront school maybe 40 feet wide by 80 feet long. People literally bounced off the walls, and we had to put a half wall a few feet in front ot the front door because a few people went out the door and almost into the street. No foam dipped gear yet. Had elastic shin / instep protectors with some pads. Similar for the hands. When sweat soaked tough to get off as were the drawstrings for the pants (No elastic yet. ) and all cotton uniforms (no Poly cotton yet) weighed a ton when sweat soaked.

 

[jobo]

Made for some great memories at the typical small storefront school maybe 40 feet wide by 80 feet long. People literally bounced off the walls, and we had to put a half wall a few feet in front ot the front door because a few people went out the door and almost into the street. No foam dipped gear yet. Had elastic shin / instep protectors with some pads. Similar for the hands. When sweat soaked tough to get off as were the drawstrings for the pants (No elastic yet. ) and all cotton uniforms (no Poly cotton yet) weighed a ton when sweat soaked.

you were training before they invented elastic ? how old are you, did they have no zips either

 

[Gerry Seymour]

you were training before they invented elastic ? how old are you, did they have no zips either

Earl's ancient, man. Their cardio was opening the door and letting in a sabre-toothed tiger to run from.

 

[dvcochran]

you were training before they invented elastic ? how old are you, did they have no zips either

Read. The post clearly says he wore elastic pads.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I am wondering if anyone else sees differences in the TKD they practiced 20-30 years ago compared to today. Do you find it difficult sometimes in class when a less tenured instructor is leading class? Can you provide then vs. now examples of how your classes are different?

How about compared to 40 years ago?

We had takedowns, low kicks, in close fight training, did not care about points, did not limit striking areas, there were no kids classes, we had fewer belt ranks, and we didn't have padding for sparring. And other than the addition of padding and training kids, which I think are good things, the rest appears to be missing from every TKD class I have seen and it does not seem to be trained based on every TKD person I have talked to, and this is a bad thing.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I am wondering if anyone else sees differences in the TKD they practiced 20-30 years ago compared to today.

Sure. Because in 1968 things were different. We didn't have dojangs, we just trained in whatever space was available. We didn't have all the nifty sparring gear, we just sparred bare knuckle. Sparring rules have changed some, with the removal of things like groin shots, sweeps, and takedowns. But that's an organizational thing, and there's nothing stopping anyone who wants to adopt a more flexible ruleset from doing so. I certainly do, with some students.

Do you find it difficult sometimes in class when a less tenured instructor is leading class?

No. Why would I? That's nothing more than egotism.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

On the point about a less-tenured instructor leading class, I'm with @Dirty Dog - it's not a problem. Well, it is in some cases, when you want to be a student and the other instructor wants to hand over the class. Not a big problem, but sometimes I just want to play student.

Going in the other direction, the dojo I teach at now has classes taught by instructors (other students of the owner's instructor) who outrank the owner. It doesn't seem to phase anyone, even when the dojo owner is attending class. I just don't see a lot of ego on display in that dojo.

 

[Xue Sheng]

On the point about a less-tenured instructor leading class, I'm with @Dirty Dog - it's not a problem. Well, it is in some cases, when you want to be a student and the other instructor wants to hand over the class. Not a big problem, but sometimes I just want to play student.

Going in the other direction, the dojo I teach at now has classes taught by instructors (other students of the owner's instructor) who outrank the owner. It doesn't seem to phase anyone, even when the dojo owner is attending class. I just don't see a lot of ego on display in that dojo.

Heck, I am older than most folks I would be taught by these days.... no big deal to me either

 

[skribs]

I am wondering if anyone else sees differences in the TKD they practiced 20-30 years ago compared to today. Do you find it difficult sometimes in class when a less tenured instructor is leading class? Can you provide then vs. now examples of how your classes are different?

I don't know how much of it is a difference in TKD, vs. a difference in dojang. The biggest thing I can think of is that the tournaments had different rules.

When I was a kid, (1995-1999) we had "light contact" and "full contact" divisions. The light contact divisions were where if you got a point, you stopped and were awarded the point, and after 3 points you won. The "full contact" divisions were the manual electric scoring, where the 3 corner judges would have the "gameboy" and if they all put in a point at the same time, you got a point.

As an adult (2013-2019), we have that system, although I don't know what they call it now (maybe "legacy scoring"), and the daedo system. I don't really know what the sparring style was like for black belts back in the 90s, but I do know it's almost exclusively a "how can I kick the head" type of a game now.

As to the other things in the school, I think the differences are less "1995 vs. 2019" and more "Master A vs. Master B." My old school was more about teaching everything correct from the start to prevent bad habits from forming, my Master is more about gently molding the technique so beginners don't get overwhelmed. My old school focused heavily on forms, sparring, and conditioning - with some self defense sprinkled in, and my Master focuses less on conditioning and more on self defense and combinations.

I haven't been back to my old dojang to see if things have changed over the last 20 years, but I do know that both schools are good, they just have different focuses and teaching styles.

 

[dvcochran]

Sure. Because in 1968 things were different. We didn't have dojangs, we just trained in whatever space was available. We didn't have all the nifty sparring gear, we just sparred bare knuckle. Sparring rules have changed some, with the removal of things like groin shots, sweeps, and takedowns. But that's an organizational thing, and there's nothing stopping anyone who wants to adopt a more flexible ruleset from doing so. I certainly do, with some students.



No. Why would I? That's nothing more than egotism.

I expected that response from some. To that point, I have never postured or belittled another instructor and if you saw me in class you would know there is no ego. I am often asked for input during class on specific elements which I am glad to offer. I have a very noticeable memory deficit and can often have trouble starting a form. After that I can do pretty good so I am cognizant of how I present information since I can see where it could be easy to think I don't know what I am talking about.
My point to the post is an effort to help our Dojangs stay strong. My GM and I have a close relationship outside of class. He has talked a lot about some form of retirement to pursue other ventures (https://www.worldchristiantaekwondomission.com/) and wants to shore up as much as possible. If you think actively pursuing improvement within your Dojang is ego, so be it.
Honestly, I am concerned that the purely social element of class is coming too much of the focus. Ideas on how to remediate this without cleaning house are greatly appreciated.

 

[dvcochran]

QUOTE="gpseymour, post: 1958834, member: 27826"]On the point about a less-tenured instructor leading class, I'm with @Dirty Dog - it's not a problem. Well, it is in some cases, when you want to be a student and the other instructor wants to hand over the class. Not a big problem, but sometimes I just want to play student.

Going in the other direction, the dojo I teach at now has classes taught by instructors (other students of the owner's instructor) who outrank the owner. It doesn't seem to phase anyone, even when the dojo owner is attending class. I just don't see a lot of ego on display in that dojo.[/QUOTE]
I can relate to the "I just want to workout" factor and that does come into play. I do not want to nor honestly cannot become the full time instructor. Being highest in rank certainly is a big factor. Building ownership does as well but not so much to the point of the post.
Please read my response to @Dirty Dog; I did not intend the post to sound egotistical. Apologies.

 

[Earl Weiss]

you were training before they invented elastic ? how old are you, did they have no zips either

No elastic in the waistband for the uniform pants. Definitely no zippers in the uniform pants.
How old am I? Suffice it to say when we trained the dinosaurs still roamed the earth

 

[Earl Weiss]

How about compared to 40 years ago?

We had takedowns, low kicks,.

Under some old rules (May have been ATA at the time) Groin Kicks, sweeps and takedowns were allowed but you hd 3 seconds after a person was down to strike. Then you had to let them up.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you think actively pursuing improvement within your Dojang is ego, so be it.

I'm curious about this - I didn't see anything in his post that suggested he thought actively seeking improvement of the dojo was a problem.

 

[dvcochran]

I'm curious about this - I didn't see anything in his post that suggested he thought actively seeking improvement of the dojo was a problem.

Fair enough but he did imply ego. I made an effort to explain I did not intend for the post to come off that way. Just looking for help and ideas.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I feel like the actual product in my dojang is similar, but the way we get there is different, more noticeably in kids classes. Attention spans aren’t what they used to be, so more creativity is required to disguise repetition.


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