The US/Cuba relationship

[Flatlander]

I would support a war in Cuba

I cannot imagine one justification for this. What, I wonder, do you actually know about Cuba? Is it those "evil communists"? What a laughable position to have.

I have a question: What legal or ethical right or claim does that United States have to the base at Guantanamo Bay?

 

[Rich Parsons]

I cannot imagine one justification for this. What, I wonder, do you actually know about Cuba? Is it those "evil communists"? What a laughable position to have.

I have a question: What legal or ethical right or claim does that United States have to the base at Guantanamo Bay?

I thought we leased the base from the government, with a non-option pact for single exit of the deal. Both parties must agree.


As to legal documents, there is one a US President issued to tell Europe to go away, "The Monroe Document": Which basically states that the USA claims the Americas and the continued colonization and expansion by the European countries must stop. We will protect our interests with arms if necessary. So, if you were to claim that Communism comes from Europe based upon the location of Marx, one could argue, and not well, that any communistic government falls into this category.

Besides the arguements not being strong, and having holes in them, the Monroe Document is not in use, and has not been in a very long time.


Still thinking and will reply again later.

 

[michaeledward]

I have a question: What legal or ethical right or claim does that United States have to the base at Guantanamo Bay?

It looks like this site contains the language of the lease.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/cuba/cuba003.htm

 

[arnisador]

A war in Cuba? Us invading Cuba, or a Civil War in Cuba? Invading Cuba might be good for them...though frankly, our recent histroy with such actions isn't very encouraging.

 

[Rich Parsons]

It looks like this site contains the language of the lease.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/cuba/cuba003.htm

Hmmm, A little war called the Spanish American War, where the USA went into Cuba and took it from Spain as well as also taking the PI from the Spanish in SEA. As part of the settlement, we agreed to release Cuba to its' own, and later, and independant of any agreements with Spain, The USA had plans to do the same with the PI, but was interrupted by WWII, which was accomplished after WWII.

I wonder if one could argue that since the US Dollar is no longer backed in Gold, is the treaty null and void?

 

[evenflow1121]

I guess I am taking the bait on this one. I would never support a war against Cuba, because I see it as a waste of overall resources, ethical reasons are very very broad, and what is ethical to you may not be ethical to another so who cares really, legal reasons, there may be some property issues in U.S. law, I am not going to bother writing them down, because we are not going to war nor should we. I ve been to Cuba on a student exchange program at the University I attended at the undergraduate level. Of course what we saw of the Island was what the Cuban Government wanted us to see, I support US/Cuba exchange because I see it as an effective transition for the Cuban people. However, as far as those evil communists are concerned, I think you are talking about the individuals that do not allow freedom of speech in the Island, you know the ones a certain group like Amnesty International call out every year for having political prisoners of conscience. Cuba is not worth invading for several reasons, but the fact is their government is oppressive having been there however, I can appreciate what I saw, and perhaps that is one of the many reasons I believe that the embargo should finally be lifted, of course that is reserved for another topic.

 

[michaeledward]

Hmmm, A little war called the Spanish American War, where the USA went into Cuba and took it from Spain as well as also taking the PI from the Spanish in SEA. As part of the settlement, we agreed to release Cuba to its' own, and later, and independant of any agreements with Spain, The USA had plans to do the same with the PI, but was interrupted by WWII, which was accomplished after WWII.

I wonder if one could argue that since the US Dollar is no longer backed in Gold, is the treaty null and void?

I wonder, why on earth am I quoted on this post?

 

[Rich Parsons]

I wonder, why on earth am I quoted on this post?

Because you posted the link that had the treaty that was dated 1903.

The Spanish American War was about 1898 to 1900. This would be about 3 years after the end of the war, in which I believe the last battle was faught after the official surrender of Spain, because of the time it took for information to travel.

So, I gave credit to the post and the link by quoting it, for those who would read the post, to understand why Cuba might even enter into a treaty withe USA, for such an amount of money with no length of time set, such as England/British Empire and Hong Kong.

 

[sgtmac_46]

We maintain Guantanamo out of regional strategic concerns. That those are our concerns is enough. The idea that some sort of vague, and undefined, ethical consideration must overcome our practical concerns is ludicrous. Moreover, it's disingenuous in that every issue that the US is concerned with, becomes a 'moral issue' on the side of anyone who disagrees with the US. It's a cheap ploy, and I hope we continue to simply ignore it.

Cuba has been and still is a threat to the US concerns in the western hemisphere. Hopefully someday, and soon, Castro's funeral procession will show communist Cuba to simply be a product of the cult of personality, and the anachronism that is communist Cuba can be resigned to the dustbin of history. The only people who think communist Cuba is a good thing, are the communists in power in Cuba, and a few US and European cultural elitists who find supporting and befriending Castro en vogue.

 

[Flatlander]

We maintain Guantanamo out of regional strategic concerns. That those are our concerns is enough. The idea that some sort of vague, and undefined, ethical consideration must overcome our practical concerns is ludicrous. Moreover, it's disingenuous in that every issue that the US is concerned with, becomes a 'moral issue' on the side of anyone who disagrees with the US. It's a cheap ploy, and I hope we continue to simply ignore it.

Yes, well, what you define as practicality is certainly a function of your perspective, isn't it? Looks like squatting to me. If you believe that holding them accountable for an agreement signed more than 100 years ago by a Cuban government installed by Americans is justifiable, then by all means, call me disingenuous.

Cuba has been and still is a threat to the US concerns in the western hemisphere.

And, what precisely is the nature of that threat? I'm not seeing it....

Hopefully someday, and soon, Castro's funeral procession will show communist Cuba to simply be a product of the cult of personality, and the anachronism that is communist Cuba can be resigned to the dustbin of history. The only people who think communist Cuba is a good thing, are the communists in power in Cuba, and a few US and European cultural elitists who find supporting and befriending Castro en vogue.

Ahhhh, the communist label. Yes, they sure are scary, those communists. Seems to me like more of the "evil Communist" war cry. There's a difference between supporting Castro and supporting Cubans to be Cubans however they choose to do be Cuban. Why the continuous intervention and need for control over other's lives? I simply do not see how American safety is jeopardized by letting Cuba be Cuba.

 

[Andrew Green]

And, what precisely is the nature of that threat? I'm not seeing it....

I'd kind of like to know this one too...

 

[jdinca]

The threat is that Cuba is a seed for spreading communist dictatorships in the western hemisphere. Castro is good buddies with Chavez in Venezuala and the new guy in Bolivia. He's not just content with being a communist dictator in his own country.

 

[Andrew Green]

So basically, they are evil because they are communist and therefore should be eliminated?

Do you really believe that Communism is that good of a system that there is a threat of it overtaking capitalism in the US?

 

[Henderson]

...and the new guy in Bolivia.

President Evo Morales

Personally, I think the dictatorial environment will not survive in Cuba beyond the death of Fidel Castro (age 79) and his brother (Vice-president), Raul (age 74). Since 1959, the Cuban people have endured the Castro regime. And even though Fidel made some headway in the areas of industry and agriculture, his policies on enforced nationalization and the suppression of opposing political parties and emigration hopefully have the Cuban people at a point where they want a voice in their own lives.


Frank

 

[Bigshadow]

I think the U.S. embargo on Cuba is utterly rediculous and pointless, just like some recent events. It may have served it's purpose at one time, but enough is enough.

Just because we don't like a form of government in a neighboring country doesn't mean we can try to take the moral high ground and impose our political system onto them. Actually, it is the U.S. embargo that has served to worsen the state of the economic system in Cuba, not their political system.

 

[evenflow1121]

There is no embargo, everybody else trades with them, as we should as well. It is a political move, btw,most of the multinational corporations that do business in the U.S. trade with Cuba, they just do it through other countries. I also do not really agree that Castro poses any type of threat, I know Chavez, and Morales in Bolivia may be friends with Castro as may be Kirchner and Lula da Silva as well, and maybe even Bachelet in Chile but Castro is not a Latin American and he would never be looked at as a leader to any of those people. Latin America is quite complex and while Castro may have had a part in the leftist rise of that region, it was bound to happen anyway given all the corruption by previous governments in South America.

 

[Andrew Green]

There is no embargo

Sure there is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._embargo_against_Cuba

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_of_2006

As of 2006, the embargo is still in effect, making it one of the most enduring trade embargoes in modern history. It remains an extremely controversial issue worldwide, with the General Assembly of the United Nations condemning it for the 14th time in 2005 by a large margin. Resistance is also growing in the U.S.

 

[evenflow1121]

Sure there is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._embargo_against_Cuba

My point that the only country that endures this position which is wrong of course is the U.S.
Just about every other country in the world trades with Cuba.

What I meant by the fact that there really is no embargo is that corporations in the U.S. can still trade with cuba so long as the trade is done through another country. So in reality all the U.S. has on Cuba are a bunch of meaningless sanctions that end up hurting the Cuban People. The Cuban government will still be there embargo or not.

 

[jdinca]

So basically, they are evil because they are communist and therefore should be eliminated?

Do you really believe that Communism is that good of a system that there is a threat of it overtaking capitalism in the US?

I don't think the Cuban people are evil at all. It's their government that I have issue with. Communism doesn't work. It's been proven over and over again.

No, I don't think there's a risk of communism overtaking capitalism in this country. My concern is communism taking over vulnerable countries that could directly or indirectly have a very negative impact on us.

 

[jdinca]

President Evo Morales

Personally, I think the dictatorial environment will not survive in Cuba beyond the death of Fidel Castro (age 79) and his brother (Vice-president), Raul (age 74). Since 1959, the Cuban people have endured the Castro regime. And even though Fidel made some headway in the areas of industry and agriculture, his policies on enforced nationalization and the suppression of opposing political parties and emigration hopefully have the Cuban people at a point where they want a voice in their own lives.


Frank

Morales, thank you. I truly hope that is the case with Cuba.