The Under Stop-Thrust
- Thread starter lklawson
- Start date
OP
OP
lklawson
Grandmaster
Personally, I have little doubt that it is deadly or greatly injurious.
However...
My doubts run more to the observation that I doubt it is INSTANTLY a fight stopper. Sure, he may die 5 minutes latter. But, at the time, he may not even realize he's been injured, even if mortally so, and this leaves you in a rather unsafe and immobile position for him to attack while he doesn't know he's dead.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Langenschwert
Master Black Belt
It is also a classic move in Italian rapier, pretty much exactly as shown.
Best regards,
-Mark
tellner
Senior Master
jarrod
Senior Master
i agree, but i think it may translate pretty well to the stick, esp if done as in picture #1. it looks like he has better body alignment & it would be pretty tough to close in from there.
jf
It's a thrusting weapon but not an edged weapon. That's the issue!
tellner
Senior Master
A rapier is a "cut and thrust" weapon. The point is used more often. The sharp edges are still there for a reason.
Langenschwert
Master Black Belt
Certainly. But isn't a rapier a sword?
Yeah, I was just pointing out that some things never change, whether rapier or sabre. Straight out of Alfieri, IIRC.
Best regards,
-Mark
My understanding of the rapier is that if you had room and time enough to make a whip-like strike you could get a cut, but that the edges weren't really all that sharp?
jarrod
Senior Master
from what i understand, it's not that rapier edges weren't sharp, it's that the blade was too narrow to withstand the trauma of a chopping type of attack. you could however use a push-cut or a draw cut, where you push or pull the blade accross your opponent rather than swing it at them. kirk or lagenschwert would answer you better though.
jf
jf
OP
OP
lklawson
Grandmaster
Honestly, it depends on the Rapier. It's a kind of generic term covering a broad range of blades and hilt configurations. Some early "transitional" rapiers were, essentially, side-swords (Cruciform Sword-in-one-hand) with a complex hilt and could "chop" with the best of 'em. Others, though edged, were so long that the balance simply wasn't right to "chop" much (and attempting might get you sqewered for your trouble).
What we typically think of as a Rapier today, is more often a transional Small-sword, but that's really Hollywood's fault.
That being said, yes, the "typical" (if there is such a thing) Rapier could cut well enough. There's even a system designed for Rapier in which cutting (more than draw/push-cuts) is an essential component: Meyer's Rapier system. The only person I, personally, know who studies it is Stefan Dieke (though I'm sure there are many others). Stefan informs me that Meyer's system has moulinets and most saber-like cuts as well as more "traditional" Rapier thrusting and draw/push-cuts.
It should be noted that I'm not a Rapier/Smallsword fighter and "pokey" swords seem sorta foreign to me.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Jeff Richardson
Yellow Belt
Rapiers cut quite well enough. We use them to cut rolled tattami mats. You aren't going to cut all the way through the mats - nor are you going to hack off limbs or heads. However, I cut 3 to 4 layers deep into the tatami pretty regular when we do this. Translate that to a cut to bone in the arms or pretty deep into the neck and easily bloodying the face and head. These are generally the primary targets for cutting with the rapier.
