The Side Parry

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jobo

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Also found this of legendary grand master Crispulo Atillo, although most of it is at speed, they start slow on the weapons, and he is also using the side parry.
there at least three time in the sword fight were the legendary grand master would lose a hand if those swordss were real, I mean really he is blocking a sword with his arm, comedy gold. no wonder he is a legend,
 

jobo

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How to develop your MA skill?

You go to

1. elementary school and beat up all those kids.
2. junior high and beat up all those boys.
3. senior high and beat up all those young guys.

1 -> 2 -> 3. You will need to develop your skill from easy to difficult.

The 1st girl that you ever date in your life time should not be pretty. If a pretty girl turns you down during your 1st date, you will have that dark shadow in your head for the rest of your life.

It's very important to "start easy".
well that my route, but your not fighting easy, if your fighting another 7 to then it's just as difficult as fighting another 30 when your 30,
 

Gweilo

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there at least three time in the sword fight were the legendary grand master would lose a hand if those swordss were real, I mean really he is blocking a sword with his arm, comedy gold. no wonder he is a legend,
It must be difficult for you, to chat to us no idea 3rd Dans, old and wise 16th Dan grand master Jobo
 

jobo

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It must be difficult for you, to chat to us no idea 3rd Dans, old and wise 16th Dan grand master Jobo
You seem to have spent a big chunk of your life learning fantasy martial arts, it not surprising that you buy in to any fantasy that comes your way, and there's no bigger fantasy than silly old men doing demonstration against a tame opponent, I see your havent denied, his remarkable ability to block a sword with his fore arm, ? Just deflexted to attack the truth teller, all very cultish
 
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KPM

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I'm not sure what your definition of instructional, teaching someone to cross the road in a manner that's odds on to get them killed, is indeed instruction, just not very good instruction,

but let's anylize the vid, people are not going to try and stab you with a tennis backhand, he is only in range to hit your outhekd knife, other wise the arc would miss e you, if he was indeed to attack you in that manner and was not the perfect distance , youve set up, then he would stab you in the shoulder and not come anywhere near you knife, and most bizarre in that position he is wide open, you could just stab him in the shoulder and move out if range

You CLEARLY don't understand what is happening and don't know what you are talking about. You seem, again, to be trying to argue about something for argument's sake alone. I'm not playing that game. If you want to provide a video showing how wrong I am and how you would do it correctly, please feel free!
 

jobo

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You CLEARLY don't understand what is happening and don't know what you are talking about. You seem, again, to be trying to argue about something for argument's sake alone. I'm not playing that game. If you want to provide a video showing how wrong I am and how you would do it correctly, please feel free!
I've already provided such a vid,

What your doing has no bearing on reality, or if you have an opponent out of range doing a totally understand natraln movement, and moving in slow motion anything can be made to work, show a vid if you doing this in real time against someone who is actually trying to stab you
 

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I've already provided such a vid,

What your doing has no bearing on reality, or if you have an opponent out of range doing a totally understand natraln movement, and moving in slow motion anything can be made to work, show a vid if you doing this in real time against someone who is actually trying to stab you
That's a strawman. Nobody - including KPM - has suggested that what you see in that introductory exercise is how it looks in application. If fact, he has said more than once that it isn't. Again, this is not much different from how techniques are taught elsewhere. You don't first teach a jab against a moving target who's trying to hit you. You don't first teach a double-leg against an opponent who sprawls. All are done either static (jab either in the air or to a bag or other non-dodging target) or cooperatively (guy assumes a position and waits for the double-leg).

What you're complaining about is, as I've said, a strawman. Your argument implicitly claims this is the entirety of the training for this technique.

(From Google's dictionary search: "an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument")
 

jobo

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That's a strawman. Nobody - including KPM - has suggested that what you see in that introductory exercise is how it looks in application. If fact, he has said more than once that it isn't. Again, this is not much different from how techniques are taught elsewhere. You don't first teach a jab against a moving target who's trying to hit you. You don't first teach a double-leg against an opponent who sprawls. All are done either static (jab either in the air or to a bag or other non-dodging target) or cooperatively (guy assumes a position and waits for the double-leg).

What you're complaining about is, as I've said, a strawman. Your argument implicitly claims this is the entirety of the training for this technique.

(From Google's dictionary search: "an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument")
No it's not a straw man, my position is that is not a valid technique, in any circumstance , further nire that putting out ibstructionai Vids of how to knife fight based on a non valid technique is reckless,
 

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No it's not a straw man, my position is that is not a valid technique, in any circumstance , further nire that putting out ibstructionai Vids of how to knife fight based on a non valid technique is reckless,
Then you keep mis-stating your own position. You repeatedly make a point that the problem with the technique involves the speed, lack of movement, and distancing used in the starter exercise. If those aren't the problem, maybe stop bringing up points about the starting exercise and focus on what you really mean?
 

Martial D

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No. You obviously don't know what you are talking about and have never really trained weapons. Swordsman do something similar to this all the time. FMA guys training with long blades do something similar to this all the time. You can even so something similar to this with Wing Chun Butterfly knives. So I really don't think you have "trained in a lot of weapons" if you think "you would never get close enough." Because you have to get at least this close to even land a strike! Unless you are throwing your weapon at the opponent! ;) Again, because I showed this in an instructional format where we are standing relatively stationary, you seem to have concluded that I would just be standing there waiting to do the technique. This is not true. Like I have already pointed out...things like this are done when the opportunity presents itself. You are moving around dynamically adjusting distance/range, and when the distance is right as your opponent tries to land a sudden thrust or backhand strike you meet it with the side parry....which is really essentially the same thing as a backhand backcut. So ideally you would be cutting his forearm or hand as you keep his strike from landing. And you would typically be angling out of the way as you do so. If you are far enough out that you can't easily reach his forearm or hand, then you end up with blade on blade contact.....which, when you have a 10 inch blade on a Bowie knife, is not at all unreasonable or difficult to do. A big Bowie Knife is essentially a short sword.

And if you think you can always stay at a distance during a real fight with weapons and will never end up closing with the opponent...again, you obviously haven't done much serious weapons training! :confused:

And I will also point out that the side parry is a pretty basic and instinctive response. Give a beginner a stick and throw a blow at him. If his hands are down and the stick is to the left of his center, he will very likely do an outward sweeping motion to try and keep from getting hit.

So really, to come here and see people questioning the utility of this very basic and instinctive motion makes me really question the knowledge and experience of weapons of the people doing the questioning. No offense intended. It just kind of surprises me.
Hey man no need to get salty. I actually like a lot of the stuff you do.

The thing is, a healthy dose of skepticism is required of those that don't want to fall into the bullshido trap. So yes, when I see things that look to be a little suspect(such as playing Errol Flynn at close range with short blades), I might require a little evidence before swallowing it whole, especially when it runs contrary to what my own experience tells me.

You used the example of Dan inosanto/escrima. Have you ever heard of Dog Brothers? They do full contact fma stuff and its pretty brutal and visceral stuff. They get hit constantly and quickly, and it's all pretty much a blur. There's very little parrying, and the rounds are fast..and these are dudes that actually train at speed for competition.

And it's much easier to block with two sticks as long as your arm than it is to block with a single blade less than half that length, against an blade that's also less than half the size of a stick, coming on a much tighter arc or thrust.

Are you really that fast? I'm sure not.


I would say if you can actually get close enough where he can stab you or slash you and you aren't filling that entry with an attack, or initiating a grappling situation to gain control of his weapon,or if you do not remove yourself from distance upon completion of said attacking entry(either way, where you need to be to execute any many of the knife counters you show in your videos), your odds are not good of stopping the next one.
This is no insult to your skill but a matter of physiology and human reflexes. The guy attacking already knows where and when, you do not. Sure, you might stop some of them, but then again you may not. The odds are certainly against you.

On another note you do realize that creating a syllabus of moves does not make that syllabus of moves effective automatically right? Only intensive pressure testing can do that.

Why not get some prop knives, a partner and some dude to act as the kill ref and make a video or two of you actually pulling some of this stuff off? I guarantee at least one of us will be surprised by the results.

As for the weapons training I've never done(since you chose to shift the discussion from the efficacy of technique to me personally, aka argumentum ad hominem), I didn't do 4 years of Arnis concurrent to my WingChun training(where we certainly didn't spar on Friday with our padded butterfly swords), I didn't study fencing with an ex Olympic alternate for two summers, and I certainly don't spar in class with the rubber knives from the rubber weapon crate a couple times a week.

That's not to mention all the personal training I've never done on my own throughout my life with my extensive weapons collection I don't have.

When you're right you're right I guess. What else do you know about me personally through intuition I wonder.
 

jobo

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Then you keep mis-stating your own position. You repeatedly make a point that the problem with the technique involves the speed, lack of movement, and distancing used in the starter exercise. If those aren't the problem, maybe stop bringing up points about the starting exercise and focus on what you really mean?
Not miss stated, I further embellished my point my referencing, that knife fightibg is totally dependent on speed, and defending against stab rather than slash attacks, as evidebced by the vid I posted,

If he had ever tried to do it in real time he would know that and that it didn't work,

Or people who can't do the whole thing in real time shouldn't be trying to teach slow moving unrealistic techniques, to the gullable
 

Gweilo

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Not miss stated, I further embellished my point my referencing, that knife fightibg is totally dependent on speed, and defending against stab rather than slash attacks, as evidebced by the vid I posted,

If he had ever tried to do it in real time he would know that and that it didn't work,

Or people who can't do the whole thing in real time shouldn't be trying to teach slow moving unrealistic techniques, to the gullable
 

Gweilo

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I did not write anything, just to see if you was going argue.
 

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Admin's Note:

Keep this discussion civil, folks. Any more snide comments towards each other will result in the issuance of warning points that can lead to a temporary or permanent ban.

You have some leeway to civilly attack the message, but not the messenger. Remember this, and you should be OK. Ignore this, and you won't be.
 

Gweilo

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You seem to have spent a big chunk of your life learning fantasy martial arts, it not surprising that you buy in to any fantasy that comes your way, and there's no bigger fantasy than silly old men doing demonstration against a tame opponent, I see your havent denied, his remarkable ability to block a sword with his fore arm, ? Just deflexted to attack the truth teller, all very cultish[/QUOTE
]
Bujinkan ninjutsu, Hapkido? Fantasy, big statement,
 

jobo

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Ok let's take the warning on voard and drop the personal attacks,

Are you claiming that you have validated them against some objective criteria, if not then there is a strong possibility that they are fantasy, and let's be ckear there's no doubt that there's a lot of fantasy martial arts about,

Your in the UK arnt you ? Come down when the weather gets better and we can have a freindly spar, if you can hit me with one of them systema floppy fish slap punches IL buy you a nice dinner,
 
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KPM

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Hey man no need to get salty. I actually like a lot of the stuff you do.

The thing is, a healthy dose of skepticism is required of those that don't want to fall into the bullshido trap. So yes, when I see things that look to be a little suspect(such as playing Errol Flynn at close range with short blades), I might require a little evidence before swallowing it whole, especially when it runs contrary to what my own experience tells me.

You used the example of Dan inosanto/escrima. Have you ever heard of Dog Brothers? They do full contact fma stuff and its pretty brutal and visceral stuff. They get hit constantly and quickly, and it's all pretty much a blur. There's very little parrying, and the rounds are fast..and these are dudes that actually train at speed for competition.

And it's much easier to block with two sticks as long as your arm than it is to block with a single blade less than half that length, against an blade that's also less than half the size of a stick, coming on a much tighter arc or thrust.

Are you really that fast? I'm sure not.


I would say if you can actually get close enough where he can stab you or slash you and you aren't filling that entry with an attack, or initiating a grappling situation to gain control of his weapon,or if you do not remove yourself from distance upon completion of said attacking entry(either way, where you need to be to execute any many of the knife counters you show in your videos), your odds are not good of stopping the next one.
This is no insult to your skill but a matter of physiology and human reflexes. The guy attacking already knows where and when, you do not. Sure, you might stop some of them, but then again you may not. The odds are certainly against you.

On another note you do realize that creating a syllabus of moves does not make that syllabus of moves effective automatically right? Only intensive pressure testing can do that.

Why not get some prop knives, a partner and some dude to act as the kill ref and make a video or two of you actually pulling some of this stuff off? I guarantee at least one of us will be surprised by the results.

As for the weapons training I've never done(since you chose to shift the discussion from the efficacy of technique to me personally, aka argumentum ad hominem), I didn't do 4 years of Arnis concurrent to my WingChun training(where we certainly didn't spar on Friday with our padded butterfly swords), I didn't study fencing with an ex Olympic alternate for two summers, and I certainly don't spar in class with the rubber knives from the rubber weapon crate a couple times a week.

That's not to mention all the personal training I've never done on my own throughout my life with my extensive weapons collection I don't have.

When you're right you're right I guess. What else do you know about me personally through intuition I wonder.


Being skeptical is fine. In that instance you say "I'm going to have to try this and see if I can get it to work." You don't go telling someone else they are wrong and it won't work, especially when that someone has been training it and CAN make it work! And I will state again...I did not make this up! Other people also can make this work just fine!
 

jobo

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Being skeptical is fine. In that instance you say "I'm going to have to try this and see if I can get it to work." You don't go telling someone else they are wrong and it won't work, especially when that someone has been training it and CAN make it work! And I will state again...I did not make this up! Other people also can make this work just fine!
Let's be clear, you've tried this against someone who fights realistically and is fast moving and you've made it work, I don't suppose there's any vid of this miracle
NB it didn't work if you got stabbed 10 times before you had a bit of luck or even once
 
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Martial D

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Being skeptical is fine. In that instance you say "I'm going to have to try this and see if I can get it to work." You don't go telling someone else they are wrong and it won't work, especially when that someone has been training it and CAN make it work! And I will state again...I did not make this up! Other people also can make this work just fine!
Well, maybe you can pull this stuff off for real. Let's see.

As I said before, one of us will be very surprised at the results.
 

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Not miss stated, I further embellished my point my referencing, that knife fightibg is totally dependent on speed, and defending against stab rather than slash attacks, as evidebced by the vid I posted,

If he had ever tried to do it in real time he would know that and that it didn't work,

Or people who can't do the whole thing in real time shouldn't be trying to teach slow moving unrealistic techniques, to the gullable
In the video you referenced, there were actually slash attacks, too. The stab approach proved to be more effective, as you'd expect, but ignoring slashes doesn't improve defense.

I agree this probably isn't high percentage stuff against someone with significant skill (relatively speaking). I don't think anything is, when it comes to knives. I see this mostly as "oh crap" moves that can save when you find yourself in the way of the attack.
 
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