The Role of Uke / Staying Connected

[Argus]

Well, I'm still very new to Aikido, and am enjoying it so far, but I struggle with the role of Uke and Nage at times. In another thread, hussaf made a very interesting post that reflects my current feelings:

It's not my school. But I travel a lot for work and visit many dojo. It's just frustrating that a nage puts me in a certain position then kicks me because I'm not where he wanted me to go, saying he could kill me and I need to protect myself and I'm just sitting there trying not to counter the **** out of his mediocre technique. It's good training to bite your ego, but I feel like a visiting shihan should set a better example. The frustrating part is that's just the culture. Even his uchi deshi was pulling the "as Uke it's your job to stay connected with me because I can kick or punch you." I'm sorry, I don't know the play preprogrammed in your head, and the oblivious disgust by the uchi deshi I was working with suggests poor training. When I was uchi deshi I was taught to find ways to help students understand what's being taught...not repeat the same thing over in the same way and expect others to understand. But thread relly: the excuse for this is "this is a martial art." I've done martial arts my whole adult life, just simply coming up with stories as to why Uke is supposed to move a certain way and say "nage will kill you" does my make it martial. it makes it delusional. Nage is responsible for what happens to Uke, regardless if Uke is too flimsily, resisting, neutral or attempting countering. Coming from a martial background it's frustrating that people can be so adamant and trick themselves into thinking they are the "real deadly" martial school of aikido.

I also come from a martial background, and encounter these same explanations of why uke has to "stay connected." To be blunt, nage does a lot of "I can kick you if you're there" and then proceeds to execute a very ill advised attack given the situation. Or explanations of how you want to stay close to and then roll away from a man with a sword. Now, this isn't to say that sticking with nage isn't safer for Uke in some situations, but to be honest, a lot of the explanations I'm given are flawed. And to be clear, I'm not critizing my instructor, or any of the students - they're pretty good, and their Aikido is pretty good. I'm just questioning the interpretations and assumptions that seem to be widespread in Aikido.

Why make up stories about how Uke can't do this or that without putting himself in grave danger? The truth is that situations are fluid, and any martial artist - including an Aikidoka - can't just rely on this or that technique. You must be able to flow and adapt to what your partner does. Isn't that why Aikido has so many different techniques, and variations on those techniques? Now, of course, when you just want to practice a certain technique, Uke needs to cooperate, or else you'll have to do something else other than what you're trying to practice. But giving explanations of how Uke can only do this or that is usually flawed.

As Uke, for example, I sometimes find nage giving me too much energy, or too much space, and encouraging me to disconnect, if not flat out making me lose connection. Is it not nage's job to properly encourage uke to stay connected? Granted, my instructor is pretty good about this, but the other students aren't always, and I often have to wonder if it is my fault as uke, or if it is nage's when something doesn't work right.

My understanding of, and experience in Aikido is still very limited, though. So, I'll ask all of you who have been at this longer than I have: what does it mean to be a good uke?

 

[hussaf]

well it can mean different things depending on where you are at. Generally you have to assume there is a reason behind the teaching system at a particular place.

For me, a good Uke is someone who gives you a technically sound, energy filled, attack then let's nage practice his technique. Basically like practicing judo or jujitsu in class. Practicing together to learn. Now most dojo don't get into resistance training, particularly if you are only training part time. there's just so damn much basic stuff to learn doing advanced resistance training kind of gets pushed to the side unfortunately.

You can train in a martial art without expecting it to make you a badass. there are many more benefits to training than beating people up. especially gendai budo. That being said, when I've gotten into physical altercations I've used aikido techniques, for whatever reason.

 

[K-man]

Sounds to me that you have some egocentric or insecure guys about the place. If I'm working with someone with little experience I will do all I can to help him. If that means goining over and over something well that's what we do. If it means explaining something again then I'll explain something again. Pretty much all the attacks in Aikido are designed to facilitate the learning of a technique. They may have come from sword but now they don't have anything to do with sword. Sometimes holding a bokken while performing a technique is useful in developing an understanding of body movements but that to me is about it. Training bokken within Aikido is a different matter.

Now to the OP. We train lots of techniques from holds. The rationale on many occasions is just that you are learning to ignore the hold and move around Uke's strength to perform your technique. The better you become the harder Uke tries to resist. Sometimes you might say that in the real would Uke might just let go and punch you and sometimes that is the case. Sometimes the hold can be justified in that if Uke lets go he may be struck. Most times that is the case if the drill is being performed properly. In that case it is quite understandable that Uke would hold as strongly as possible, which is not the same as resisting the technique. Holding strongly while receiving the technique develops sensitivity and in time you will need that ability to receive to perform the reversals. Using resistance depends on the experience of the practitioners.

hussaf mentioned resistance training above and he is right in saying that many schools don't use it. He suggested that may be because of time pressure but I think that his comment might be too generous. I am more inclined to believe that a lot of teachers don't allow resistance because they themselves might be stopped by their students. My rationale is if I can perform a technique slowly with no strength against total resistance then I can use it under pressure. If I can't make it work then I need to go back to basics, with less resistance, and build up to total resistance. Now that is my training, not my partner's. Most of the time, my partner will not be resisting but he will be staying connected. That is his training in receiving.

Aikido is complex and some people don't make it all that easy to understand it.
:asian:

 

[hussaf]

My aikido school has the least egocentric people I've seen at any martial arts school.

Of course you teach beginners differently.

 

[K-man]

My aikido school has the least egocentric people I've seen at any martial arts school.

Of course you teach beginners differently.

I think in any environment where people a genuinely trying to learn, ego takes a back seat. I've just come back from a full week of fantastic training where we had one of Okinawa's top karateka and a group of students ranging from white belts to 8th dan. I saw no ego. Everyone just helped everyone else. Actually, it was up there with the best training group I've been part of. Ego only comes into it when people start hiding behind their rank.
:asian: