Hmm, maybe I can help clear a few things up here.
The problem with koryu, including those aspects of x-kan training that are koryu or similar, is that you never really know with an 800 year old art whether the version preserved today is the 800 year old version, the 700 year old version, the 600 year old version etc etc etc. For those arts that pre-date the Sengoku era there MUST have been changes to kata and training methods as warfare itself changed, as well as different fashions in sword/spear length etc.
First off, the idea of preserving the exact training methods really isn't what is being done in many cases of Koryu. What is preserved is the Ryu, it's philosophy, it's teachings, it's heart, and so on, and that is expressed through the training methods. For example:
Kashima Shinryu has restructured it's Jujutsu syllabus (at least) within each of the last three generations, moving around where the kata are, removing some, adding others, re-incorporating more still. This is done as a reflection of the current headmasters view of the best way to pass on the lessons of the Ryu itself, as well as the relative time and student body that is being taught.
Hontai Yoshin Ryu has started to incoporate Iai from the Toyama Ryu in the last 20 years.
Araki Ryu has a long history of pressure testing it's methods to ensure that they work against resistance, and under the realities of adrenaline, and anything that is not found to be acceptable is either dropped or re-worked to make it workable. Add to that the tradition of each Menkyo Kaiden holder being expected to go their own way and create their own version of the art, change is inevitable.
Toda-ha Buko Ryu reconstructed their Nagamaki and Kusarigama kata in the current generation.
For those that have not changed (according to their traditions), the best known is the
Katori Shinto Ryu. They maintain that they are unchanged, although certain parts of the syllabus have been lost (such as the Kyujutsu and Sui-ren aspects), and the art itself has changed names about half a dozen times.
In terms of the art necessarily changing, I don't know about that. It depends on what the art was trying to teach. For example, the more common responce to changes in environment seemed to be to found a new Ryu, rather than change an existing one. Add to that the fact that many Ryu (in fact, almost every one I can think of) was removed from battlefield combat, and were more about teaching strategies and tactics to the leaders of various factions, rather than giving physical fighting skills to general soldiers. They're best thought of like training to be an officer, say, a Major or General, rather than the training for a regular infantry soldier.
When it comes to dating the systems, that's actually not that difficult. What you need to know is the styles of armour that were popular, what forms of weaponry and warfare were prominent at the time, and the surrounding details to the founding of the Ryu itself. To look at something like Gyokko Ryu, for instance, the Shime Waza (Ketsu Myaku, Sakketsu, Teiken) all seem to be much later additions, as do a number of kata within Koto Ryu (such as Hissaku, and Shinsen). Togakure, so you know, seems to come from the mid-1500's in it's movement.
You could even say that we need EACH snapshot to be preserved separately, to show the difference between the 800 year old version and a 400 year old version. In future this will be possible with the advent of film footage in the early 1900s, such as the following recent reconstructed clip:
Love that clip. To my eyes, it's an early form of Judo, making it's way to the West. But unfortunately we don't have footage like that from 1185, so what we need to rely on are the contemporary art works, which show the forms of armour worn, the weaponry being used, and the tactics being utilised, then compare those with the extant systems to measure the claims against the evidence we have. And that can be done now. It just comes down to knowing the history.
It is also difficult for me to believe that people really trained in the painfully slow kata methods that seem to be de rigeur for most koryuha today, according to all the clips on youtube, as they are missing a lot of what would have been needed to keep them alive in real combat, or perhaps they do also have lively 'free' training and it just doesn't get filmed!
Painfully slow? Really? Mayhap you haven't seen Koryu the way it should be done then....
Ideally, a kata when done properly is only a fraction away from a real fight. It should be at the same speed, intensity, power, distance, adrenaline, and stress level as a real fight. And, as a result, by experiencing kata in that form you are actually getting closer to a real fight than a "sparring" form, by virtue of the necessity of safety considerations. The only safety consideration that is needed in kata is the fact that the action is pre-determined.... and even that isn't enough. When done properly, you simply don't have time to "remember" the kata, and simply try to survive it by giving over to the repetitive training you should have gone through. The various Katori clips around here are good examples of that.
In terms of free-form training in Koryu, that's actually not too uncommon actually. But it is rather different from "sparring" in many cases. But, so you know, Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu has a form of free-form training at it's higher levels (known as Aikuchi Roppo), many Jujutsu systems have a "randori" element to the training (closer to Aikido's than anything else), and some systems such as Owari Kan Ryu Sojutsu actually begin their training with Shiai (contest) before kata training begins.
[yt]UN2g-hD_dSw[/yt] Owari Kan Ryu randori
It is a shame to have to hold the opinion that the average cage fighter with a couple of years training would destroy most of these koryu jujutsu 'masters' in seconds in a no-holds barred fight, and with a fraction of the techniques and not a single 'kata' in their MMA repertoire, but many of us cannot help it, and no one is EVER going to convince us via the medium of frantic keyboard tapping on a forum.
The problem there is that you are looking at two completely different situations. I can think of a few things you could do that would leave the MMA guy high and dry, for instance, but if you're talking about a modern sporting competition, of course the MMA guy will have a field day. That's really not what the Koryu are about, and to think they are is to not understand them, and have a rather limited view of martial arts.
Don't get me wrong, I am not anti koryu, or anti kata, or I wouldn't be training in 'traditional arts' at all, but I think that today's martial artist needs to go further than holding the paintbrush perfectly, and occasionally dipping it in paint, and if at all possible, to paint one's name on a fast moving train, in the dark, when not even expecting a train or being consciously aware that he is holding a brush and paint. In short to test oneself by other's standards, rather than one's own, or those of an indoctrinated group of people.
Why? I'm actually serious here, if the aim of Koryu is nothing whatsoever to do with handling violence as it exists today (and, to be sure, it's not), why on earth do they need to measure themselves by anything other than their own standards? You may not be anti-Koryu, my friend, but you're a little shy of understanding what they are about.
For the Bujinkan for example, it could have been said not long ago that the rank structure was pretty accurate of the martial ability within the organisation, even if it could not claim a level of quality control when comparing these standards with other arts or street fighting prowess. But now we have people who are cross training, people who can switch to superior methods than taijutsu when the fight goes to the floor, or who can explode into striking methods that will overwhelm anyone who is not used to a training regime that includes defence against quality representations of these methods. And we have shodan who would beat most 10th dans, which should not be possible when there is often less than a decade in age difference.
This, to me, is looking at the wrong thing, though. If your aim is to be as dominant a street fighter as possible, then you are better off not training in a traditional, or traditional-based system, as it is so far removed from the requirements as to be completely irrelevant. If your training in Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu in order to get good at Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu (for whatever personal reasons you may have), then training in other things are in no way going to improve your Budo Taijutsu. If, on the other hand, you are only concerned with self defence, then Budo Taijutsu isn't the right choice for you.
Who can beat who is largely irrelevant when it comes to looking at a system, the ranking should be based on the abilities, knowledge, experience, and understanding of the individuals in question in the system they are ranked in, and that's all (and I'm not touching whether or not that is the case in the Bujinkan ranking system....)
Koryu and ancient methods are an essential part of the whole, but anyone who is not interested in the 'whole' should be more honest with themselves and others that they are not rounded martial artists with any greater chance in a real fight than a seasoned untrained ruffian, but are merely (and often highly) skilled in one aspect/facet of martial arts [fighting methods] as a whole.
Again, completely beside the point. Really, if modern self defence is the aim, you have no reason to be training in a Koryu.
It is perfectly fine to study without being interested to learn how to fight for real, but be honest that this is the case, that you are more interested in preserving and mastering movements created by those who have gone before.
Closer, but not quite there either. It's not about just repeating their movements and mastering them, it's about gaining the heart and mind of the Ryu, and the movements and techiniques are the way of getting to that.
I'm not saying that there aren't 'stars' out there in the koryu world who could wipe the floor with all comers, but they certainly aren't being churned out of those systems with any consistency.
Actually, Koryu tend to have a much higher consistency than other systems, mainly due to the very low numbers of people who actually train in them. Koryu are far more restrictive to who is allowed to join than other, more modern systems, and that allows them to choose those who are the best suited and most likely to preserve the art. That then allows the Ryu to ensure that those being trained get a very personal level of attention, and very serious training. Compare this to regular TKD classes, or MMA classes even, not everyone gets to be at a professional level, whereas Koryu aims to get everyone to that level.
Pearls before swines...
). I would not be dismissing an experienced Genbukan practicioner against an MMA fighter IF rules were not an issue. in an MMA cage however, yes, we'd probably not do that well.
