The Dead Hand

[Bill Mattocks]

I don't know what other styles of martial arts call it, but I am referring to the technique often called a 'soft' technique but which is anything but soft.

For example, punch comes, the person being attacked drops an open hand on the top of the attacker's wrist of the attacking fist (or to the side, etc, depending on how they intend to deflect the punch). This is thrown with a circular striking motion, somewhat of a 'whip', and recoil is not instant, instead 'sticking' to the attacker's hand/wrist for a brief microsecond. This is then often 'bounced' off the attacker's arm and the open hand forms into a fist to attack with, as if gaining energy from the attacker's punch. It is the combination of the soft or open hand and the very brief sticking that gives it the name 'dead hand' as I have heard it called, as I understand it.

I have found that the 'dead hand' is often incredibly painful to receive, and when the martial artist performing it has practiced their technique, the followup punch is amazingly fast and nearly impossible to block or avoid; it may not be the most devastatingly powerful of punches, but it's on you in a heartbeat, right up the middle.

I really like the technique, but what I do not quite get is how the 'dead hand' can generate so much pain with what appears to be a relatively weak motion, and then generate so much speed on the return attack. I'm working on my understanding of it through application.

Anyone familiar with this technique who could provide some explanation? What do you call this technique in your style? How is it employed?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Without some sort of visual aide I do not quiet get what you are talking about, but it sounds similar to things I have come across in Taijiquan, Baguzhang, Xingyiquan and even years ago in Japanese Jujutsu.

Body unity and using the attackers energy while staying relaxed as to not impede the power of the strike

 

[RTKDCMB]

Sounds a bit like Kempo but I may be wrong.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Without some sort of visual aide I do not quiet get what you are talking about, but it sounds similar to things I have come across in Taijiquan, Baguzhang, Xingyiquan and even years ago in Japanese Jujutsu.

Body unity and using the attackers energy while staying relaxed as to not impede the power of the strike

I wish I had a video to show you. Yes, it is done from a relaxed position, with the exception of the moment the rebounding open hand of the person doing the technique becomes a fist in the counter-attack. At that last moment, the body is grounded, the hips help to extend the arm and the fist tightens upon impact.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Sounds a bit like Kempo but I may be wrong.

I would guess it is done in a number of styles. I can't believe it is something too uncommon.

 

[Tez3]

My instructor teaches that as 'heavy hands', very painful. Not sure what it comes from as when he's teaching self defence techniques come from all sorts of places, anything he's found works ( he has plenty of opportunity to find out what works through the jobs he's had).
It doesn't tend to be a circular movement as described, more a heavy hand, relaxed and a 'dead' weight and leaving the strike there for moments, it can also be done with kicks.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I wish I had a video to show you. Yes, it is done from a relaxed position, with the exception of the moment the rebounding open hand of the person doing the technique becomes a fist in the counter-attack. At that last moment, the body is grounded, the hips help to extend the arm and the fist tightens upon impact.

Xingyiquan is big on that

 

[Bill Mattocks]

My instructor teaches that as 'heavy hands', very painful. Not sure what it comes from as when he's teaching self defence techniques come from all sorts of places, anything he's found works ( he has plenty of opportunity to find out what works through the jobs he's had).
It doesn't tend to be a circular movement as described, more a heavy hand, relaxed and a 'dead' weight and leaving the strike there for moments, it can also be done with kicks.

Yes, that's it. The circular motion is subtle, not a big or obvious circle. Some describe it as a 'drawing motion' as if you are pulling the incoming fist in, then rebounding off of it, again in a very slight circular motion. It is indeed a 'heavy hand' and it feels like someone hit your hand or wrist with a brick. Kicking can also be done like that, we call it a dead leg, but no circular motion that I'm aware of on that. It's just a kick that sticks and weighs a ton. Designed to move an opponent physically, but it hits a ton.

 

[Tez3]

Actually thinking about it more and using my arm with the cat giving me very funny looks lol, there is a subtle circular movement now you say that. And yes it really does hurt!

 

[seasoned]

In GoJu, it has to do with the structure training of Sanchin kata.

With a Shoulder/elbow connection to the ground, everything comes up from the ground through a well trained body structure. With the body completely relaxed, with no tension held and a good root, everything is returned to the ground via their extended body part.

Not easy to explain, as is much of TMA, it needs to be felt.

 

[yak sao]

This sounds like something we do in Wing Chun that we call the bouncing punch...it is found at the end of our 2nd form, Chum Kiu.

The palm is used to press down a punch, or it can be used to push ourselves away from say an incoming roundhouse kick by pushing off of the knee while the opponent's kick is still chambered.
Then as Xue said above, body unity, using the momentum of the shift, along with borrowing the force of their technique, and staying relaxed makes for a whipping type of force.

I was unable to find a video that demo'd this

 

[Touch Of Death]

I don't know what other styles of martial arts call it, but I am referring to the technique often called a 'soft' technique but which is anything but soft.

For example, punch comes, the person being attacked drops an open hand on the top of the attacker's wrist of the attacking fist (or to the side, etc, depending on how they intend to deflect the punch). This is thrown with a circular striking motion, somewhat of a 'whip', and recoil is not instant, instead 'sticking' to the attacker's hand/wrist for a brief microsecond. This is then often 'bounced' off the attacker's arm and the open hand forms into a fist to attack with, as if gaining energy from the attacker's punch. It is the combination of the soft or open hand and the very brief sticking that gives it the name 'dead hand' as I have heard it called, as I understand it.

I have found that the 'dead hand' is often incredibly painful to receive, and when the martial artist performing it has practiced their technique, the followup punch is amazingly fast and nearly impossible to block or avoid; it may not be the most devastatingly powerful of punches, but it's on you in a heartbeat, right up the middle.

I really like the technique, but what I do not quite get is how the 'dead hand' can generate so much pain with what appears to be a relatively weak motion, and then generate so much speed on the return attack. I'm working on my understanding of it through application.

Anyone familiar with this technique who could provide some explanation? What do you call this technique in your style? How is it employed?

Defanging.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Also, instead of bounce, we say rebound.

 

[oftheherd1]

Yes, that's it. The circular motion is subtle, not a big or obvious circle. Some describe it as a 'drawing motion' as if you are pulling the incoming fist in, then rebounding off of it, again in a very slight circular motion. It is indeed a 'heavy hand' and it feels like someone hit your hand or wrist with a brick. Kicking can also be done like that, we call it a dead leg, but no circular motion that I'm aware of on that. It's just a kick that sticks and weighs a ton. Designed to move an opponent physically, but it hits a ton.

Bill, I think what you are referring to are some of the circles we use in Hapkido. At 1:23 in the video you can see one example, but not exactly what you talking about. But it does show a circle being used to continue motion and therefore speed and strength, rather than a start-stop-start again movement. Having to start, then stop (even with a strike to the opponent), then start a strike again, slows the movement and robs power. Again, not exactly what you are talking about, but a circle to gain speed and power. (It was the only thing I could find in a hurry) We do have block strikes like I think you are describing.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Bill, I think what you are referring to are some of the circles we use in Hapkido. At 1:23 in the video you can see one example, but not exactly what you talking about. But it does show a circle being used to continue motion and therefore speed and strength, rather than a start-stop-start again movement. Having to start, then stop (even with a strike to the opponent), then start a strike again, slows the movement and robs power. Again, not exactly what you are talking about, but a circle to gain speed and power. (It was the only thing I could find in a hurry) We do have block strikes like I think you are describing.

That's actually pretty close, thank you! Yes, imagine that hand coming in as a punch, and applying what looks like the same technique. Dead hand, turns into an attack. The downward 'slap' (it's not a slap, it just looks like one) is quite painful to receive.

 

[oftheherd1]

That's actually pretty close, thank you! Yes, imagine that hand coming in as a punch, and applying what looks like the same technique. Dead hand, turns into an attack. The downward 'slap' (it's not a slap, it just looks like one) is quite painful to receive.

It's hard to catch, but if you watch carefully, you can see the instructor is using a sort of modified sudo strike. If you watch even more carefully you will see what you may think is a slap, is really a move of the hand such that the knife edge of the rotates into the strike, giving more power to the strike. Imagine coming down as if to slap, but suddenly rotating the wrist for a sudo circular strike. The opponent who has watched a deflecting slap coming to his arm suddenly feels unexpected pain, and before being able to react/recover from that, finds the circular strike has arrived, seemingly out of nowhere.

Have I made it more or less clear?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

It's hard to catch, but if you watch carefully, you can see the instructor is using a sort of modified sudo strike. If you watch even more carefully you will see what you may think is a slap, is really a move of the hand such that the knife edge of the rotates into the strike, giving more power to the strike. Imagine coming down as if to slap, but suddenly rotating the wrist for a sudo circular strike. The opponent who has watched a deflecting slap coming to his arm suddenly feels unexpected pain, and before being able to react/recover from that, finds the circular strike has arrived, seemingly out of nowhere.

Have I made it more or less clear?

Yes, I understand. We don't turn ours into the shuto (edge of hand) as you described, but rather drop the open hand. It truly looks for all the world like a slap, but it brings a solid power and 'heaviness' to the strike that does not feel anything at all like a slap when it lands. The circular stike is the same as you have described. So it seems the techniques are related; the main difference appears to be how the first block/strike is applied; followup is the same. As you said, it seems to come from nowhere; hard to block or avoid a strike that comes straight up the middle like that, especially after a sudden influx of pain has informed the opponent's mind that they need to be paying attention to their hand/wrist.