Teen 'sport killings' of homeless on the rise

[Andrew Green]

Personally, I blame Bumfights.
​

I think that begs the question of why are bum fights getting interest?

Perhaps the overwhelming abundance of fantasy violence, and almost complete sheltering of real violence?

Bum fights maybe feed a strong curiosity for what "real" violence is like? Which of course is nonsense as they are just another form of fantasy made to seem real, like all the other reality TV crap we've been flooded with since Survivor made a motion to lower the global IQ levels.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Lack of respect is right, but one thing I was always taught growing up was that respect was a two way thing, if you didn't show it, you wouldn't get it.

Does society give teens respect? Seems a chicken and egg thing a little here.

But when I see videos of schools that look like prisons, with random drug sweeps done without warrant by armed officers, weapons drawn. And when I see metal detectors and security armed guards searching students as they enter. And when stories of teachers abusing there power are just as common as teen violence. Students getting suspended for incredibly stupid things. It's really no surprise that some of them have no respect for society.

Treat people like criminals and second class citizens, and that is exactly what you will get.

That's a good point. One of my pet peeves, after Columbine, was the way adults in authority began to treat all students as potential mass-murderers - despite the fact that all but two of the students at Columbine were VICTIMS and that adults have been committing spree killings in record numbers since the 1960's (Texas Tower incident, IIRC, got the ball rolling) and only in the past decade or so have dysfunctional kids followed this example.

That being said, all the teacher and staff abuse that I saw directed against particular students (usually minorities) in public school in Florida in the mid-1970's did not cause similiar behavior by students - and some sadistic teachers would seriously bruise students with a large wooden paddle on any pretext.

I think this phenomenon is caused by a variety of factors - from bad parenting to the glorification of and desensitization to violence by the media as well as the lack of personal responsibility folks take today in comparison to past eras.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

True. Sadly the reaction is to over react. Schools today are much more tightly locked down than when I went, and the restrictions insane. No locker stops, no bags to carry your books, and people wonder why.

Its true, treat people like dirt, they become dirt. Unfortunately, that's the US education system today. Goto school and learn to conform. Be a sheep. Baaaaa.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

True. Sadly the reaction is to over react. Schools today are much more tightly locked down than when I went, and the restrictions insane. No locker stops, no bags to carry your books, and people wonder why.

Its true, treat people like dirt, they become dirt. Unfortunately, that's the US education system today. Goto school and learn to conform. Be a sheep. Baaaaa.

I want to start a new thread on this topic - mind if I use your post (quoted - to get the ball rolling) and do so?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Go ahead.

 

[fireman00]

an how old were most of us when we started playing DOOM or D&D ? I'd say most likely in our mid to late teens when our core values of right and wrong, while not set in stone, were pretty much formed.

Unfortunately in today's world kids are playing GTA at the age of 6... how do you think that affects the development of their values? Does anyone really believe that having a 6 year old whose playing the bad guy that's peeing into a a dead cop's mouth won't have serious repercussions? The Road Runner never went off on Wiley Coyote like that.

Being exposed to a first person shooting game at that age has been shown to desensitize children to violence and death.

We did a survey in the dojang - when asked what their favorite movie was several kids who are 6,7 and 8 years old listed Saw, Saw II and Saw III as their favorites. When I asked other adults at the dojang what their favorite movies where when they were 6-8 they mentioned movies like Old Yeller, Herbie the Love Bug and any other Walt Disney movie.

Parenting is the root cause of the escalating level of violence in society; but there are other factors at work that should be more regulated becuase parents aren't doing their job - its far easier to buy the kid a game and let him sit in front of the TV playing GTA for hours on end then to make sure that they are doing their homework, taking them to <insert sport> practice, and on and on and on.

As far as schools go - read the papers and check out CNN.COM, FOXNEWS.COM or MSNBC.COM; almost every day there is a report of a weapon being found in school, on the school bus or on school grounds. What should school administrator do? Turn their heads away and pretend like another Columbine won't happen?

 

[Kacey]

I want to start a new thread on this topic - mind if I use your post (quoted - to get the ball rolling) and do so?

As far as schools go - read the papers and check out CNN.COM, FOXNEWS.COM or MSNBC.COM; almost every day there is a report of a weapon being found in school, on the school bus or on school grounds. What should school administrator do? Turn their heads away and pretend like another Columbine won't happen?

I posted my response to the thread that Jonathan started from Bob's quote here, but I think some of it is relevant to this discussion also, especially in response to fireman00's post, so I'm going to quote myself rather than retype it all:

Honestly, Jonathan, I think it's an outgrowth of a societal issue that is much bigger than the schools. As a teacher, I see way too many kids and teens who have no sense of personal responsibility, because they have not learned responsibility from their parents - and it is now multi-generational. We live in a society where blaming everyone but oneself is a national pasttime - look at the mess clogging our legal system, the ads for personal injury attorneys, the class-action lawsuits for medicines proven to be harmful too late, lawsuits against McDonald's for "making people fat" - all the ways people are encouraged to blame those around them for the ills of their lives - all of this is part of a bigger societal issue: if you don't like something, get together a big enough group of of people, and get a law passed against is; if you're a legislator, and your constituents - especially the noisy ones - don't like something, pass a law against it; if something happens that you don't like and don't know how to fix, pass a law against it... if you can't pass a law, file a suit... the fact that many of these laws are unenforceable, and many of the lawsuits cost more than people involved will get (except for the attorneys) doesn't stop anyone, because they see it as action, when it is really a knee-jerk reaction that has little or no effect, and often backfires more than it works as intended.

To get back more directly to schools - I agree. There was a case in Colorado (well before Columbine, I might add), shortly after the "zero tolerance" for weapons law had been passed, about a 3rd grade girl who got to the school cafeteria and found that she had her mother's lunch instead of her own - and inside the bag was a paring knife her mother had packed to cut up an apple. The student took the knife to a teacher and asked what she should do with it - the teacher took it, and went to ask the principal, who, reluctantly and with a great deal of distaste for the law he had to uphold, had no choice but to expel the girl - who had done exactly as she should have - for bringing a weapon to school. To have not done so would have cost his job. To his credit, he did the best he could - because the law requires expulsion, which, in Colorado, cannot exceed a year's time, but doesn't have a minimum - so he expelled the girl for one day, to meet the requirements of the law while attempting to not punish her unduly for something that was truly not her fault. Nonetheless, the child went through all her elementary and secondary schooling with an expulsion on her record, her parents filed suit against the school (and rightfully so, in this case)... but the law continues to state that anything that even looks like a weapon be treated as if it really were one.

On the other hand, I work in a middle school where students have brought guns, knives, drugs, or alcholol to school - and when their parents are contacted, they blame the child's actions on anything but themselves... "well, he knows better, so he earns what he got... wait, what do you mean, expelled - you mean I have to keep him at home!?!?! But that's not fair to me!" or "but you just don't understand my child - s/he just wants attention" or "how dare you blame my child for starting that fight, just because the security camera shows him deliberately bumping into the kid who hit him" (and the only thing sadder, to me, than needing security cameras in schools is needing them in places of worship). And on and on and on...

Are new laws the answer? No - although enforcing the existing laws instead of passing ever-more restrictive and unenforceable laws might be a place to start. But nothing will work until society decides to change itself and its attitudes from within, rather than trying to control the behavior of others from without.

 

[evenflow1121]

It's funny....
I played D&D heavily as a kid....
Have spent countless hours gaming on the computer....
...first person shooters a specialty.
I've listened to heavy metal since Ozzy was in Sabbath the first time, and KISS was still on the original line up.....
I watch sci-fi, fantasy, anime, porn, and war movies.
I've dyed my hair, have tattoos and body piercings.
I was heavily ridiculed and repeatedly harassed and physically assaulted in high school.
I'm a geek.
I'm a pagan/taoist/Hindu/Buddhist and a past atheist, episcopalian, satanist, wiccan. (Yeah, I've done alot of seeking, still am)
I play paintball, lasertag, stickfight, & spar.

There are some matters in my past that would have many people going "damn!" if they were brought up.

I've never killed anyone.
I've never raped anyone.
I've never put anyone in the hospital due to "uncontrollable anger"
I've never killed myself (duh)
I've never been arrested.
I've never taken pleasure torturing animals.
I've never killed an animal for pleasure. (flys and spiders don't count)
I've never plotted to take up arms and wipe out my classmates.
I've never thought it would be cool to drive around and hit people with 2x4s/shoot them with paintballs

I must have gone wrong somehow. I'm sorry, but in my opinion, these "teens" need a dose of reality soon. They think the world revolves around them, that they are the center of the universe and that they are indestructable and answer to no one. They need a reality check. Some will sympathise with these losers. I don't.

It's not music, or gaming, or porn, religion or what not.
It's poor upbringing, a serious lack of respect, respect for self, respect for life, respect for others. Dumb *** parents too lazy to take any interest in their kids lives, overburdened school systems being used as secondary parents, spoiled brats and government doing its best to shift blame, look busy but do nothing combined with talentless so called "reporters" looking for a sensational story.....they need to be put against a wall and shot. Yes, I said shot. The buck passing needs to end, the parents need to be held accountable and these pisspots reigned in and taught some serious manners. Time to let teachers use a stick on the little brats again.

This is an excellent post sir, everyone especially when they are growing up needs a couple of smacks just to put them in line,I know my dad didnt play around when I got out of line, but it made me a better person. A lot of parents are not taking responsibility for their children these days, and our politicians are too cowardly to properly address the issue.

 

[jazkiljok]

Dumb *** parents too lazy to take any interest in their kids lives, overburdened school systems being used as secondary parents, spoiled brats and government doing its best to shift blame, look busy but do nothing combined with talentless so called "reporters" looking for a sensational story.....they need to be put against a wall and shot. Yes, I said shot. The buck passing needs to end, the parents need to be held accountable and these pisspots reigned in and taught some serious manners. Time to let teachers use a stick on the little brats again.

yep. blow'em up. blow'em up good.

:redeme:

 

[Blotan Hunka]

It's not music, or gaming, or porn, religion or what not.
It's poor upbringing, a serious lack of respect, respect for self, respect for life, respect for others. Dumb *** parents too lazy to take any interest in their kids lives, overburdened school systems being used as secondary parents, spoiled brats and government doing its best to shift blame, look busy but do nothing combined with talentless so called "reporters" looking for a sensational story.....they need to be put against a wall and shot. Yes, I said shot. The buck passing needs to end, the parents need to be held accountable and these pisspots reigned in and taught some serious manners. Time to let teachers use a stick on the little brats again.

Exactly right. Except then those same parents will be in the school raising holy hell that their "little angel" was paddled.

 

[jks9199]

If your (meaning these kids, not you) personality is that weak, then you have issues. I am just so sick of everything being blamed on anything but the kid who's actually responsible. Guess what, I grew up in a single parent household, I love heavy metal, and I have a great time playing Grand Theft Auto and shooting cops and seeing how long I can survive before the SWAT teams take me down. And before GTA, it was Half-Life, Quake, and Doom. And when I was a kid, before games like this were available, we used to play games like Kill the Guy with the Ball and have BB gun wars. For some reason, I've never thought it acceptable to beat up someone for fun, let alone kill them. Maybe I haven't been desensitized enough? :idunno:

That's not at all what I meant... Ultimately, the kid is absolutely responsible for his choices. But his parents have a role in what they teach and in what they let a kid fill his brains with.

I'm a police officer. I currently specialize in gang investigation. In that field, we despise the term "wannabe." If a kid is dressing the part, acting the part, and hanging around with gangsters... He's GONNABE a gangster. But I very rarely find kids with involved and aware parents who become gangsters...

It's not merely the music or the tv shows that is desensitizing kids to violence, and encouraging them to choose to commit violent acts. It's the overt glamorization of violence and a violent lifestyle, with little depiction of the consequences, that is desensitizing them. Parents, schools, youth programs, teachers, and society can counter this -- but only if they choose to be aware of the influence, and use their own. Other factors that feed the desentization include early exposure (as others have pointed out) and the almost hyper-realism and involvement of the video games or movies, etc. By the time I was old enough and had the freedom to try some of the stuff seen in cartoons when I was a kid... I knew the difference between a cartoon and reality.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

That's not at all what I meant... Ultimately, the kid is absolutely responsible for his choices. But his parents have a role in what they teach and in what they let a kid fill his brains with.

I'm a police officer. I currently specialize in gang investigation. In that field, we despise the term "wannabe." If a kid is dressing the part, acting the part, and hanging around with gangsters... He's GONNABE a gangster. But I very rarely find kids with involved and aware parents who become gangsters...

It's not merely the music or the tv shows that is desensitizing kids to violence, and encouraging them to choose to commit violent acts. It's the overt glamorization of violence and a violent lifestyle, with little depiction of the consequences, that is desensitizing them. Parents, schools, youth programs, teachers, and society can counter this -- but only if they choose to be aware of the influence, and use their own.

Good point - and I don't believe that your observations are truly in conflict with Kreth's or my own. Personal responsibility, as you point out, as well as environment (media, culture, etc.) influence are not mutually exclusive factors.