Technical question on Keumgang

[andyjeffries]

Having only recently (December 2009) found out there was a right arm in front for hecho-makki (the active one, normally same side as foot forward), I've apparently got myself confused with Keumgang.

In the movements where you're going down the side, one one side I do the hecho makki left arm outside and pull back to junbi-seogi and keep the left arm outside for the low side blocks (can't remember the Korean). On the other side I do it right arm outside and then pull back and put my left arm outside.

So, I thought I'd go to the Kukkiwon 6-DVD set as the authoritative source. In it, GM KANG Ik Pil does it with the same arm outside on both sides (I believe it's his left arm outside always) which I'm fairly sure is incorrect.

Can someone confirm (ideally with a source) how it's supposed to be done?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Having only recently (December 2009) found out there was a right arm in front for hecho-makki (the active one, normally same side as foot forward), I've apparently got myself confused with Keumgang.

In the movements where you're going down the side, one one side I do the hecho makki left arm outside and pull back to junbi-seogi and keep the left arm outside for the low side blocks (can't remember the Korean). On the other side I do it right arm outside and then pull back and put my left arm outside.

So, I thought I'd go to the Kukkiwon 6-DVD set as the authoritative source. In it, GM KANG Ik Pil does it with the same arm outside on both sides (I believe it's his left arm outside always) which I'm fairly sure is incorrect.

Can someone confirm (ideally with a source) how it's supposed to be done?

Im with you, it doesnt seem right to have the same arm outside on both sides. I use a different arm outside for either side. Then again we arent kukki so Im just saying the way we do it so unfortunately I cant provide a source.

 

[Archtkd]

Having only recently (December 2009) found out there was a right arm in front for hecho-makki (the active one, normally same side as foot forward), I've apparently got myself confused with Keumgang.

In the movements where you're going down the side, one one side I do the hecho makki left arm outside and pull back to junbi-seogi and keep the left arm outside for the low side blocks (can't remember the Korean). On the other side I do it right arm outside and then pull back and put my left arm outside.

So, I thought I'd go to the Kukkiwon 6-DVD set as the authoritative source. In it, GM KANG Ik Pil does it with the same arm outside on both sides (I believe it's his left arm outside always) which I'm fairly sure is incorrect.

Can someone confirm (ideally with a source) how it's supposed to be done?

Which hecho maki are we talking about? anpalmok momtong hecho maki or arae hecho maki. Also, I'm comfused: what pulling back to junbi seogi in the middle of Keumgang are you referring to? Did you mean naranhiseogi?

This is a lifted copy of the official Kukkiwon video in You Tube. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/viewfront/eng/data/technique_trunk2.jsp
In slow motion of the video -- at 6:34 -- the right hand passes over the left -in arae hecho maki -- At 7:50 the left passes over right hand in -- arae hecho maki.

 

[andyjeffries]

Which hecho maki are we talking about? anpalmok momtong hecho maki or arae hecho maki. Also, I'm comfused: what pulling back to junbi seogi in the middle of Keumgang are you referring to? Did you mean naranhiseogi?

Sorry, I now have a copy of the Poomsae book by GM Kang with me. The movements I'm referring to are 12 and 13. Anpalmok momtong hechomakki and then the following arae hechomakki. In the first movement I would do left hand bottom/outside in the first one (as the left foot moves in the direction of movement). It's the second movement I have more of a question over.

This is a lifted copy of the official Kukkiwon video in You Tube. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/viewfront/eng/data/technique_trunk2.jsp
In slow motion of the video -- at 6:34 -- the right hand passes over the left -in arae hecho maki -- At 7:50 the left passes over right hand in -- arae hecho maki.

I can't see the video on that page for Keumgang, just a link to the Taekwonedu.kr site. I did have a look on the Kukkiwon DVDs and he seemed to always use the same hand in front on there.

Hopefully though, now I'm using the right terms it's clearer which movement I mean. So on movement 13 when you pull the left foot back to naranhiseogi you are saying the right hand goes in front of the left.

 

[Archtkd]

Sorry, I now have a copy of the Poomsae book by GM Kang with me. The movements I'm referring to are 12 and 13. Anpalmok momtong hechomakki and then the following arae hechomakki. In the first movement I would do left hand bottom/outside in the first one (as the left foot moves in the direction of movement). It's the second movement I have more of a question over.



I can't see the video on that page for Keumgang, just a link to the Taekwonedu.kr site. I did have a look on the Kukkiwon DVDs and he seemed to always use the same hand in front on there.

Hopefully though, now I'm using the right terms it's clearer which movement I mean. So on movement 13 when you pull the left foot back to naranhiseogi you are saying the right hand goes in front of the left.

Try this link again:

. The video is a copy of what you have in 6-pack DVD set. In the first movement -- Poom 12 (momtong hecho maki) -- right hand moves over left . In the second movemenent -- Poom 13 (area hechomaki) -- left hand moves over right

 

[andyjeffries]

Try this link again:

. The video is a copy of what you have in 6-pack DVD set. In the first movement -- Poom 12 (momtong hecho maki) -- right hand moves over left . In the second movemenent -- Poom 13 (area hechomaki) -- left hand moves over right

I'm looking at about 0:27, in that time it's left hand in (bottom)front then left hand in front. Then again (on the other side) at 0:58 it's left hand in (bottom)front then left hand in front. At what time point are you referring to? I assume it's incorrect to always do it with the left hand in front ;-)

 

[Archtkd]

I'm looking at about 0:27, in that time it's left hand in (bottom)front then left hand in front. Then again (on the other side) at 0:58 it's left hand in (bottom)front then left hand in front. At what time point are you referring to? I assume it's incorrect to always do it with the left hand in front ;-)

I hope I am able to describe this right. That's the way I do it, just like the Kukkiwon DVD shows.

In Poom 12 -- Anpalmok momtong momtong hecho makki -- I execute the block by crossing arms with left over right while in jeochoom seogi.

In Poom 13 -- arae hecho makki -- I execute the block by crossing hands right over left hand as I straigten to naranhiseogi.

 

[Gnarlie]

I was pulled up specifically on this point by Grandmaster Park Soo Nam 9th Dan at a UK NGB Technical Seminar. GM Park's view was that for poom 12, the left hand would be outside, as that is the lead leg on the step around. For poom 13, for the chamber at chest level, the right hand would be inside, and as the hands drop remaining crossed in front of the body, it ends up on the outside before the hands are uncrossed, because that is the direction about to be stepped into. The movements are exactly mirrored on the other side of the pattern.

After that seminar, I watched every version of Keumgang I could find, and everybody was doing it either the same on both sides or randomly depending on mood. Even watching the world championships yielded inconsistent results. I've gone with GM Park's way, in the absence of any other explained guidance.