KenpoTex
Senior Master
back at ya
TASER facts
- Thread starter Lisa
- Start date
Now that law enforcement is using the Taser more often, do you see more officers using the Taser, how do you say, prematurely? With a pistol you knew that death could occur and your life or someone elses life had to be in danger. With the less lethal taser, they may not feel the same restraint.
What do you think about the new Shotgun Taser round? :shock:
Mike
What do you think about the new Shotgun Taser round? :shock:
Mike
Bodhisattva
Blue Belt
Far too many people are maimed or killed by Tasers.
FieldDiscipline
2nd Black Belt
tkd1964, I share your concern with the above.
KenpoTex
Senior Master
The Taser is generally placed at the same level as OC or sometimes Baton on the force continuum.
There have been fatalities in situations where a Taser was used. However, I would be willing to bet that if the Taser did not exist, many more people would have been dead or injured since the officers would have to resort to empty-hand or baton techniques, or in some cases, maybe even a firearm.
There have been fatalities in situations where a Taser was used. However, I would be willing to bet that if the Taser did not exist, many more people would have been dead or injured since the officers would have to resort to empty-hand or baton techniques, or in some cases, maybe even a firearm.
Support your claim with facts. Too the best of my knowledge, no death has been directly attributed to the Taser, nor have any maimings.
The Taser is a very good, less than lethal tool. In virtually every case of a solid, two probe hit, the modern Taser WILL produce incapicitation for the 5 seconds of the cycle, with little lasting injury. When I was trained on the Taser, I and several other students in the class took that ride. For the full 5 seconds. Every one of us was able to stand up immediately, and were functional. In the class I was in, that ranged from people in their early 20s to those in their 40s. (I'm aware of even older people voluntarily being given that ride, as well.) Fitness levels were also quite varied. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US was able to get up immediately, and would have been functional. I felt a little wobbly, kind of like taking a good hit, but not really being rocked. Others didn't feel that much.
That's anectdotal... but, through voluntary exposure in training and re-training, literally hundreds of thousands of men and women have been given that ride. You'd be stunned at things the RCMP has done testing the Taser; those guys are NUTS!
Through the use of the Taser, many people have been subdued with minimal injuries to themselves, or to the arresting officers. It's not perfect for every situation, but it's much better than beating someone with a stick or shooting them... and it's more reliable than pepper spray.
I would not say prematurely. What I will say is that officers use it rather then relying on physical control holds to accomplish the same effect (the arrest of the bad guy).
But one thing you have to remember is that police officers are not martial artists. It is not uncommon for officers to be injured when using force. I know several officers who have broken their hands (as well as parts of a suspects face) due to punching. Most departments spend a minimal amount of time training officers in the use of defensive skills.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
Better for you and me....but Taser's C2 is the perfect option for the 'average' person who A) Isn't going to carry a gun and B) has no desire to train to use a knife or impact weapon.
It's a technological aid that does have a useful place in self-defense situations.....is it a magic bullet? Absolutely not, but it's a decent tool.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
Name ONE! Hint: 'Correlation equals causation' is a logical fallacy.
So again name ONE person killed BY a Taser!
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
The Taser is not comparable to a firearm, which is lethal force. Using the Taser 'prematurely' as you say, however, has been shown to REDUCE deaths by stopping situations that were in the process of ESCALATING to lethal force. The Taser by it's very nature SHOULD be used 'prematurely' to avoid allowing a situation to escalate!
For the record, i've been Tasered a couple dozen times.....it's not nearly the big deal that AI and the ACLU attempt to make it out to be.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
There is SOME potential for maiming......such as catching one of the barbs in an eye, but that's why center mass is the target. The Taser wave itself, however, has not shown to create ANY permanent harm, not matter how hard the ACLU and AI attempt to invent it.
Mmm you're not getting to like it are you?
I hated pain when I started MMA, now it's almost enjoyable lol!
How does it work against the drugged up type, the ones that feel no pain etc as they are so high? Effective or can they shrug that off too? That's always one of those oh oh moments.
FieldDiscipline
2nd Black Belt
Used to spar a Shotokan guy like that. He really liked being hit, and hard.
Sparring him was no fun at all.
Sparring him was no fun at all.
Sir, some time ago I also was tasered albeit by an illegally held device. It's a minor point that the barbs dragged the skin out of my chest and have left permanent scarring, but the shock itself precipitated an existing condition in me that needed long term hospitalisation - my point being - with respect - it *is* a big deal, least to a non armour-plated sort like myself. I think maybe NOT a device any martial artist should be complacent about?
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Never said that there wasn't a potential for maiming...
The taser's flinging straightened fishhooks at the target, at respectable velocity. There's a chance for a maiming sort of injury, especially if they strike the eye or are fired at close range. An agency in my area had a Taser cartridge discharge accidentally into an officer's hand; one of the darts actually stuck in bones of the officer's hand.
But, all told, the Taser doesn't tend to cause serious or persistent injury.
The taser's flinging straightened fishhooks at the target, at respectable velocity. There's a chance for a maiming sort of injury, especially if they strike the eye or are fired at close range. An agency in my area had a Taser cartridge discharge accidentally into an officer's hand; one of the darts actually stuck in bones of the officer's hand.
But, all told, the Taser doesn't tend to cause serious or persistent injury.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
I've been a Pepperspray instructor and a Taser instructor for several years.....part of both has been exposure to the tools......I don't 'enjoy' being Tasered, but I certainly enjoy it a HELLUVALOT more than being Peppersprayed! The irony to that is that the Taser incapacitates me, while the Pepper spray does NOT incapacitate me in the LEAST! However, when you stop being Tasered it's over! Pepperspray keeps on giving, and once the adrenaline wears off, Pepperspray SUCKS while you wait the hour or so for the effects to subside to a comfortable level.Mmm you're not getting to like it are you?
I hated pain when I started MMA, now it's almost enjoyable lol!
How does it work against the drugged up type, the ones that feel no pain etc as they are so high? Effective or can they shrug that off too? That's always one of those oh oh moments.
As to the specific question of drugged up types, it is nearly 100% effective, assuming no malfunction and the darts reach the required targets. Assuming that, no one i'm aware of, including some VERY pain resistant tough guys, have fought through it. Why? Because it's not a pain compliance device.....it LITERALLY interrupts the signal of the voluntary muscles of the body and takes them OVER by putting it's own signal on top of the brain. Will-power ceases to be an element, as even if you have the WILL to make those muscles do what you want, they are being given a more powerful signal than the one your brain sends! And bigger, more powerful muscles merely contract and expand more powerfully! Hopes that answers the question.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
You're absolutely correct, the potential for serious injury is far lower than most of our other options. The Taser has been PROVEN safer for BOTH the Officer AND the Suspect than other means of control!
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
I understand if you can't say further, but was this a criminal using a Taser on you? And what was the extent of injuries? I ask merely out of professional curiosity as I always ask people about the extent of any Taser related personal experience.
One REAL risk of Tasers are injuries to connector tissues that CAN be injured while the muscles are being stimulated, such as knees, back injuries, etc.....though, for LEO purposes the risk of those injuries is actually lower than the risk to those soft connector tissues while in a physical scuffle! Far less than the risk to them from a baton strike or knee strike.
