The continuing war against Taser Internation

[sgtmac_46]

I received a letter the other day from Taser International representatives making me aware of a situation that had arisen involving a law suit and their product. I was sent this letter because our agency has deployed Tasers for several years now.

The core of the law suit was this: The City of Dolton Village filed a lawsuit against Taser claiming product liability and fraudulent marking by misrepresenting the safety of the product.

According to the law firm representing the City of Dolton Village, the mayor and the police chief suspended use of the $8000.00 worth of Tasers they had purchased out of safety concerns.

The news media, always eager these days to attack Taser International (and by proxy police officers) jumped on this story without even bothering to question the REAL story.

http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2143


http://www.farrin.com/legal-news/pe...eges-taser-company-misrepresented-product.php

Mayor William Shaw said "he and Police Chief Ronald Burge suspended Taser use in May, a few months after paying $8,572 for the weapons."

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articles/0721tasersuit21.html

The REAL story appears to be quite different. The mayor misrepresented the entire event, claiming that it was a decision arrived at with the input of the Police Chief. The truth, however, appears to be far different.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=129937&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=768168&highlight=

http://money.cnn.com/services/tickerheadlines/prn/200510170730PR_NEWS_USPR_____NYM171.htm
http://www.policeone.com/pc_print.asp?vid=119870
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2005/10/17/daily1.html?jst=s_cn_hl

Apparently, the police chief states that he was never consulted about the decision to remove the tasers from use, he never had any problems with the safety and effectiveness of the tasers, and he was never involved in any level of the lawsuits. What's furthermore, it appears the chief was fired for not following the mayors line with regard to the lawsuit.

What the Chief is saying is that Mayor Williams flat out LIED when he stated what happened with the Tasers.

What makes the whole issue even MORE interesting is that the law firm handling the lawsuit for the City of Dolton...Is the very same law suit involved in a Class-action securities lawsuit in Florida. It seems odd why a Florida Law firm would be handling an Illinois lawsuit...Until we become aware of the fact that in a securities lawsuit, if the companies stock drops it can increase the claim for damages in a securities litigation. I'd be interested to know what Mayor Williams is getting paid by the law firm.

The war against Taser International and police all around the country continues, backed by eroneous claims, bogus science, faulty logic and out right lies.

Despite large amounts of money being thrown at trying to stop police departments from using Tasers, Amnesty International, the American Civil Liberties union and trial lawyers everywhere have failed to show the Taser as being anything but an incredibly safe and effective law enforcement tool.

This is illustrated by the fact that Taser use has REDUCED Officer injuries in some jurisdictions by 80 plus % and suspect injuries by 70 plus %. Officer involved shootings are down, and the public is safer with this product.

With all that in mind, i'm hard pressed to understand (except for maybe the trial lawyers desire for profit) why Tasers have become so demonized.

For whatever reason, it's clear that many in the media are determined to distort and manipulate this story, to the point of out and out altering the facts. USA Today was sued by Taser for a similar distortion of reality when USA Today claimed that the Taser was 100 times more powerful than the electric chair (when, in reality, it is 1000 times LESS powerful).

http://www.lawcore.com/legal-information/08-24-05.html
http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=3547447&nav=menu216_5

Even when reporting the obvious lie of USA Today, many media outlets attempt to spin the story further.

This kind of distortion of the facts isn't an accident as it is happening all to frequently. I'm really curious about the underlying motive.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

This is illustrated by the fact that Taser use has REDUCED Officer injuries in some jurisdictions by 80 plus % and suspect injuries by 70 plus %. Officer involved shootings are down, and the public is safer with this product.

That's great. Any abuses with the product, IMO, should be handled on a CASE BY CASE basis. I wonder how many more drug using suspects have NOT died of heart failure because the Taser kept them from wrestling with a half dozen officers? This does NOT mean, however, that I have agreed with many of the high profile uses of tasers against children - some as young as six or seven - just that I say handle those incidents separately and allow LE the non-lethal tools they need to protect lives while remaining as safe themselves as possible.

 

[sgtmac_46]

That's great. Any abuses with the product, IMO, should be handled on a CASE BY CASE basis. I wonder how many more drug using suspects have NOT died of heart failure because the Taser kept them from wrestling with a half dozen officers? This does NOT mean, however, that I have agreed with many of the high profile uses of tasers against children - some as young as six or seven - just that I say handle those incidents separately and allow LE the non-lethal tools they need to protect lives while remaining as safe themselves as possible.

I agree, the use of Tasers on children and elderly infirmed people, even if technically justified, should be avoided if at all possible.

You are exactly right on how many drugged suspects are likely saved by Tasers. I had a gentleman high on Methamphetamines one night that was arrested peacefully enough, struggle with himself, no one else involved, to the point that he went in to respiratory distress. Fortunately, I already had him in an ambulance taking him to the hospital, but the doctor said a few more minutes and he'd be dead now.

A Taser was not involved, and the guy didn't happen to fight with us. However, had the guy been more violent than he was, a struggle would have likely killed him through no one else's fault but his own. Had he been Tasered, everyone would have blamed the Taser. The truth is, however, Methamphetamine and Cocaine induced Psychosis is a life threatening state of affairs that ALSO often involves violence toward others, including to officers.

The wonder isn't the NUMBER of in custody deaths correlated with Taser uses, the wonder is the LOW number (approximately 100 over the last several years). These are numbers produced by Amnesty International and the ACLU that include EVERYONE who died after Taser usage, including TWO WHO DIED OF GUNSHOT WOUNDS. They couldn't have inflated the numbers any more without making them up.

That only 100 hundred have died in incidents correlated with Taser usage, despite Tens of Thousands of Usages, is evidence of the safety of the Taser product. The Taser is likely saving drugged suspects who otherwise would engage in prolonged struggles with police and die of cardiac arrest.

However, trial lawyers are willing to sue on the most nebulous grounds if there is a promise of cash rewards. It doesn't matter what the facts of the case are, if someone died in the vacinity of a taser, some trial lawyer will attempt to demonize the police departments, the cities and taser itself to get at the deep coffers.

 

[MJS]

Seems to me that no matter what the cops do, someone will always be out there making negative comments. If the cop shoots a suspect, people ask why he had to be shot. If they Taser someone, they ask why. Its a no-win situation. I think it would be interesting to see exactly what the real cause of death was of someone who was hit with the Taser. How is the LEO supposed to know if the suspect has a heart history? They can't!

As far as the misuse goes...thats just an issue of improper training.

Mike

 

[sgtmac_46]

Seems to me that no matter what the cops do, someone will always be out there making negative comments. If the cop shoots a suspect, people ask why he had to be shot. If they Taser someone, they ask why. Its a no-win situation. I think it would be interesting to see exactly what the real cause of death was of someone who was hit with the Taser. How is the LEO supposed to know if the suspect has a heart history? They can't!

As far as the misuse goes...thats just an issue of improper training.

Mike

Misuse is dealt with on a case by case basis, just like with everything else in law enforcement. There is ZERO evidence that the Taser is MORE prone to abuse..In fact, Tasers record the date and times of all firings for later review, as well as leaving small markers lying on the ground, adding a level of oversight not present in ANY other tool Law Enforcement uses.

What's more, in all but 2 cases, cause of deaths were ruled as a direct result of exertion resulting from cocaine or methamphetamine overdose. In those 2 cases, the coroner saw fit to list Tasers as a possible contributing factor. That in itself is a distortion, in that any confrontation is a possible contributing factor.

I remember when I first started in law enforcement, the big meanie weapon causing "Deaths" according to Amnesty International and the ACLU was Pepper Spray. We had classes on "positional asphyxia" and "incustody deaths" and the same old culprips were killing suspects...Super Stimulant abuse. Before my day it was the dreaded "Choke Hold" and "Hog Tieing".

Throughout all these years the rate of incustody deaths has not changed at all. If Tasers were killing people we would be seeing an INCREASE in incustody deaths as a percentage of all uses for force. Just the opposite is true, we have seen a slight DECREASE, illustrating the fact that early Taser intervention can be attributed with reducing the duration of physical confrontations and, hence, the stress on the suspects respiratory and circulatory system caused by Super Stimulant use.

The fact that the ACLU and Amnesty International is relying on anecdotal evidence, and merely throwing out the "100 deaths" statement is because they don't want to get in a discussion of raw total numbers, and percentage of deaths prior to Taser and now. They want to create a fallacious argument based on emotional rhetoric and vague innuendo. They know the facts don't support their claims.

Even as that isn't working, they have reverted to the old lawyer trick of "What If" where they paint a scenario saying "Isn't it possible...". Then, they make what (they hope) sounds like a reasonable request (which is actually anything but) hoping departments will take the bait. They basically request that we have a "moritorium" until some nebulous "Further research" can be conducted. They make no claims about how much research would be enough as it's all a ruse. They want to get their foot in the door so they can ban this valuable law enforcement tool that not only saves officers and reduces officer injuries, but saves SUSPECTS lives and reduces their injuries as well.

I know what the Taser does and doesn't do, i've been hit with it nearly a dozen times. I'd far rather be Tasered than pepper sprayed (which i've been) or beaten with a baton (which i've been as well).

 

[Tgace]

Ditto...

 

[bignick]

I think the taser is one of the best tools for settling a physical confrontation that LEO's have. I'd sign any petition to support them or vote down any measure to ban them...

 

[sgtmac_46]

I think the taser is one of the best tools for settling a physical confrontation that LEO's have. I'd sign any petition to support them or vote down any measure to ban them...

That's exactly right. The Taser is a valuable law enforcement tool, and it would do a disservice to the community to remove it from the law enforcement tool belt. It has proven time and time again to be a life saver, not only of police officers, but of suspects themselves.

It has reduced incidents that would cause liability for cities (which is one reason I suspect many trial lawyers who specialize in suing cities for allegations of abuse are so adamently against it...it reduces their law suits and profits). What's more, even those people who like to sue departments for anything, are hard pressed to successfully sue after a Taser usage because they are unable to show any damages resulting (unlike baton strikes and even pepper spray). Again, it's a trial lawyers worst nightmare (which is why the ACLU and Amnesty International is against it).

Once again, if Tasers are removed as an option for police, it'll be the communities that suffer, as police will revert back to the old way of doing business (as they would have no other option).

A side note, Amnesty International and the ACLU have given lip-service to supporting Taser use. However, it bears noting what they call "Tasers Legitimate" role. What those organizations want is the Taser elevated to the level of response to lethal force only, and they ultimately want to take police officers firearms away. This just goes to show the level of asinine thinking present in these organizations from time to time. :erg:

 

[Tgace]

If a picture is worth a 1000 word, what is a video worth?

http://www.personal-selfdefense-online.com/taser-video_center.htm

How can you be against this tool? I wish my administrators would go for it....

 

[bignick]

Although bad things can happen...my Judo instructor said that on a call one time they were forced to use the Taser against a suspect. When he was hit he didn't go down, so they kept pulling the trigger, screaming at him to get down...they guy just stood there screaming and swearing at them...after a couple pulls on the trigger they let go and the guy crumpled. Here, the electricity, instead of causing him to spasm and collapse, forced his joints to lock up and he couldn't get down on the ground, even though I'm sure he wanted to to...

I'd still take that over being shot a couple times anyday...

 

[sgtmac_46]

Although bad things can happen...my Judo instructor said that on a call one time they were forced to use the Taser against a suspect. When he was hit he didn't go down, so they kept pulling the trigger, screaming at him to get down...they guy just stood there screaming and swearing at them...after a couple pulls on the trigger they let go and the guy crumpled. Here, the electricity, instead of causing him to spasm and collapse, forced his joints to lock up and he couldn't get down on the ground, even though I'm sure he wanted to to...

I'd still take that over being shot a couple times anyday...

Oh yeah, or being hit with a baton or pepper sprayed. Pepper Spray has been a huge boon to law enforcement. Unlike the Taser, however, pepper spray keeps on giving long after the confrontation is over. Tasers have no real residual effect. When it's over, it's over. I've had suspects request that I "Turn off" the pepper spray. Sorry buddy, once exposed, only time and lots of water will stop the burning.

 

[bignick]

Not only that...but I know LEO's that have, during the confusion due to all sorts of factors...wind, contact, etc, have been exposed to their own pepper spray...it'd be a lot harder to (literally) shoot yourself in the foot with a taser...

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Sgtmac, I STRONGLY suggest that you gather the information you presented in these threads and write an article on the subject and submit it to various magazines (both online AND print). This would do two thing; first, correct misinformation, second launch you on a second career as a freelance writer. There are several individuals on this forum who I think would make great and PUBLISHABLE writers.:CTF:

On edit: just discovered how to use the smilies, so folks on MT, bear with me for a while while I play with them.

 

[arnisador]

See also:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11696

I think the Taser is a fairly humane option. Accidents are going to happen in confrontations. People die from getting hit in the chest with baseballs.

 

[MJS]

Misuse is dealt with on a case by case basis, just like with everything else in law enforcement. There is ZERO evidence that the Taser is MORE prone to abuse..In fact, Tasers record the date and times of all firings for later review, as well as leaving small markers lying on the ground, adding a level of oversight not present in ANY other tool Law Enforcement uses.

What's more, in all but 2 cases, cause of deaths were ruled as a direct result of exertion resulting from cocaine or methamphetamine overdose. In those 2 cases, the coroner saw fit to list Tasers as a possible contributing factor. That in itself is a distortion, in that any confrontation is a possible contributing factor.

I remember when I first started in law enforcement, the big meanie weapon causing "Deaths" according to Amnesty International and the ACLU was Pepper Spray. We had classes on "positional asphyxia" and "incustody deaths" and the same old culprips were killing suspects...Super Stimulant abuse. Before my day it was the dreaded "Choke Hold" and "Hog Tieing".

Throughout all these years the rate of incustody deaths has not changed at all. If Tasers were killing people we would be seeing an INCREASE in incustody deaths as a percentage of all uses for force. Just the opposite is true, we have seen a slight DECREASE, illustrating the fact that early Taser intervention can be attributed with reducing the duration of physical confrontations and, hence, the stress on the suspects respiratory and circulatory system caused by Super Stimulant use.

The fact that the ACLU and Amnesty International is relying on anecdotal evidence, and merely throwing out the "100 deaths" statement is because they don't want to get in a discussion of raw total numbers, and percentage of deaths prior to Taser and now. They want to create a fallacious argument based on emotional rhetoric and vague innuendo. They know the facts don't support their claims.

Even as that isn't working, they have reverted to the old lawyer trick of "What If" where they paint a scenario saying "Isn't it possible...". Then, they make what (they hope) sounds like a reasonable request (which is actually anything but) hoping departments will take the bait. They basically request that we have a "moritorium" until some nebulous "Further research" can be conducted. They make no claims about how much research would be enough as it's all a ruse. They want to get their foot in the door so they can ban this valuable law enforcement tool that not only saves officers and reduces officer injuries, but saves SUSPECTS lives and reduces their injuries as well.

I know what the Taser does and doesn't do, i've been hit with it nearly a dozen times. I'd far rather be Tasered than pepper sprayed (which i've been) or beaten with a baton (which i've been as well).

Thank you for the reply!! Seems to me that the ACLU has nothing better to do than stir the pot!! IMHO, if they don't have all of the facts, if they have not done any research to support your claims, then they have no business commenting on the topic! I for one, would be interested in hearing why the M.E. listed the Taser as a contributing factor. As I said before, it seems to me that no matter what the LEO's do, someone, somewhere, is going to make a negative comment.

Mike

 

[MJS]

I think the taser is one of the best tools for settling a physical confrontation that LEO's have. I'd sign any petition to support them or vote down any measure to ban them...

Right on!!! I'm with you on that one!!! I've talked to quite a few officers that carry them. I have to chuckle when they tell me that all they have to do, is pull it out, and the biggest, baddest punk backs off and does a complete 360!!!

Mike

 

[arnisador]

Sounds like the word is out on the street...I find that convincing!

 

[sgtmac_46]

Sounds like the word is out on the street...I find that convincing!

Most definitely. Our use of force incidents have declined drastically since the introduction of the Taser. Just the presence of a Taser at an incident makes suspects think twice. The Taser has worked for us without even needed to be used. Most of the time, even if someone is going to resist, just activating the laser light and putting the dot on their chest is enough to gain compliance. The Taser works 99% of the time as a deterent. What's more, even the worst and most violent offenders rarely desire to be Tasered again after their first exposure. This tool works like few things in law enforcement history. It's not a magic bullet or a phaser on stun, but it's darn close.

 

[Keite]

Hmmm. We complain about Law Enforcement's use of guns and knight sticks, and when a safer alternative presents itself, CNN throws a tantrum...Makes perfect sense to me!

In all seriousness though, a handful of the stories I've seen on Tasers have been about "victims" who didn't really have any abnormal reaction. They usually go along the line of "Dude, I was just physically assaulting my teacer and he, like, tasered me! It felt like electricity going through my body!" You do have to wonder what they're trying to accomplish by this. Of course they would never report the successful cases. That just isn't as exciting.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Hmmm. We complain about Law Enforcement's use of guns and knight sticks, and when a safer alternative presents itself, CNN throws a tantrum...Makes perfect sense to me!

In all seriousness though, a handful of the stories I've seen on Tasers have been about "victims" who didn't really have any abnormal reaction. They usually go along the line of "Dude, I was just physically assaulting my teacer and he, like, tasered me! It felt like electricity going through my body!" You do have to wonder what they're trying to accomplish by this. Of course they would never report the successful cases. That just isn't as exciting.

I think the vast majority of the American public are of the same opinion as you.

The special interests driving the anti-Taser issue seem at a loss to turn public interest against the Taser as a safe and effective law enforcement tool, and they are truly perplexed by the fact. What they fail to understand is that the average American is taught, at a young age, that you really don't have to worry about police using force against you...if you just don't break the law. Even more, you can break the law and still not get Tasered, just don't fight with the police, resist arrest or attempt to flee when you get caught. It all seems pretty simple to me.

The reason vast numbers of American's aren't real sympathetic is that most American's go their entire life without one single negative contact with the police. If they do have a "negative contact" it usually takes the form of a simple speeding ticket. People that have repeated negative contacts with the police are usually....criminals. (For those still confused, see Chris Rock's "How not to get your <butt> kicked by the police!" video for further details.)