Taking the Linux Plunge

[Cthulhu]

Buddy of mine is running the Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy demo through WineX on Slackware.

He's recently completely migrated to Linux, after dual booting for a while.

He may still have articles up from his switch on his site:

www.thehaus.net

Click on the 'Alternate OS' link or run a search for Linux in the search field.


Cthulhu

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I cant edit images on it as Photoshop dont work in Linux

GIMP does most of the same stuff, it's not hard to learn

Do web pages? No DreamWeaver

If you're good enough to run Linux, you should be doing them by hand!

$ gvim

3D animation? No Lightwave

Blender, Maya...

Bookkeeping? No QuickBooks.

Gnucash.

Ian.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

ok, reinstall #1

I tried installing apache with php and -every- time it gave me grief.
The best part is, every time it was a different error message.... even though each time I was doing a cut n paste from the instructions.

Eventually, gcc started giving me some 'cant find' errors.

Redhat installs Apache 2, and MySQL 3

I need Apache 1.28 and MySQL 4

I tried installing from RPM, and the GNOME package manager just sat there.

I managed to get MYSQL 4 installed from source b4 gcc broke, however I couldn't get the damn thing to stay running...or if it was, to show up under running services. >_<;;;

oh, and all the docs seem to assume that you know exactly where every file already is. I haven't even found the bloody graphical file manager yet....I know there -was- one, cuz I used it under an earlier version of RH. >_<

The frustration level is quite high.
:soapbox:

 

[satans.barber]

Try Mandrake 9.1 instead, I think it's nicer. Comes with a suite of nice config tools that Red Hat doesn't have.

If you want to use a graphical file manager try either Konqueror or Galeon.

Ian.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Sadly, it has to be RedHat.

Now on Reinstall #3 as the stupid thing wouldn't uninstall software...kept yelling that it couldnt uninstall because it couldn't find all the parts. sheesh..... am now doing a bare bones install, and will add things as I need them.... this is pathetic.

>_<

I'll try Konqueror. I just found it..we'll see if it shows up when this reinstall is done. sheesh........

 

[arnisador]

When you come for the seminar I'll have you do mine since you'll be an expert!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Yeah..I'll be the bald guy......

This has been the normal cycle.... I get it so far, and then try to -do- something with it and it goes to hell fast. I've gotten it farther than previously, and the average home user isn't gonna want to install a web development enviroment, but some of this stuffs nuts.

Ok....DVD's.... This system screamed under Win 98...runs good under Win2k. Under RH, it stutters, sputters n otherwise hiccups. I -finally- found all the particular settings to get it smoothed out, but it took a day. I had to download and compile various bits to get everything smoothed out. The average home user doesn't have this level of patience. XINE worked great, once I found all the bits and installed LIBDVDCSS.

The version of XMMS that comes with RH has MP3 support removed. I had to track down the source, recompile, and reenable MP3 support. This was not that easy as I kept getting 'newer version already installed' errors.

Once I got the firewall rules straight, web and email worked fine. This was a quick fix, as the 'dummies' book was straight forward on how to set this all up.

The install process is nice and smooth, and provided you have a little idea on what everything is, goes quickly and efficiently.

I've had no problem with accessing any of my business or personal files, with the previously mentioned QuickBooks issue.


I'm either going to beat this beast, or I'm gonna use the PC for target practice. >_<

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Reinstall #4.

I tried to compile software...it said GCC wasn't installed...
Ok, so I goto the Add/Remove thing... it insists on installing a block of stuff..ok, no problem..

Wait...it cant find Kerobos and OpenSSL development tools....
neither can I. I dont -want- them. But the stupid FN thing won't continue.... so I hunt down RPMs for Kerobos...but -that- wont install until I track down something else...I do that, and -it- wants something else....

Needless to say....I'm now more than a tad pissed off.

The -biggest- pain in the *** here is that -every- bloody time I reinstall, I have to loginto RedHats site, unsubscribe and then resubscribe so I can get updates. I think out of all the headaches, this is one of the ones most annoying. >_<

So, systems wiped and just finished clean install #4.

back to the fight.... >_<

 

[arnisador]

Quit while you're behind!

Seriously, is this for an actual purpose or are you just experimenting?

At this point I gather it's a mountain that must be climbed because it's there--you're not going to let Linus Torvalds beat you!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

actual purpose.

1- inhouse developmental system

2- migrate away from windoze

p until I hit this series of PITA snags, it was going smoothly...mostly.

 

[satans.barber]

Why does it *have* to be red hat?

I've never had any of this crap with Mandrake, you can just tell it to install everything possible (~2Gb), do it by group selection or select individual packages.

You'll get Apache 2 (why would you want to run an old version of Apache? Unless it's not going anywhere near the Net, that's stupid...), MySQL 4, all the dev and compilation tools you need and everything.

Linux is a power users OS, you need some skill and patience to isolate and fix problems. This isn't Windows, repeatedly re-installing is not the answer to your problems!

Ian

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Because the server that MartialTalk (and my other clients) are on is a redhat system. Running Apache 1.3.28, PHP , and MYSQL 4.0.15.

Plus, I'm stubborn. Also, I dont want it to install everything, as some of it I just don't want on here...I don't require a dns server or nis server for example.

The problem here is, all I wanted to do was install apache, compiled with php support and mysql support.

following the instructions verbatum repeatedly gave different results.

Apache said 'copy the binary to your apache directory'. Yet, never said -what- the binary was called, where it was to be found, nor where to put it. I looked and found apache files in -3- different places, and none of em seemed 'right'. Finally figured out there was a conflict between the AP2.0 that RH installs, and the AP 1.3 I installed... I -think- when I deleted files I ripped out gcc files. (Yes, I know I'm probably doing it wrong...but the package manager refused to uninstall until I could tell it where some file was...yet never seemed to tell me how to tell it or where it was getting its info from)

I've found that the RPM interfaces I used previously aren't installed or if they are, easily found for a novice. I much prefered the ones on Mandrake and SUSE.

It drove me nuts when all I wanted was GCC, yet when I went to install it, it asked for another file, which asked for another file which asked for yet another file.

I'm a novice to this side of things, and am wearing my patience out.... its frustrating that on this RPM you just click and install, yet on this other one, clicking does nothing..you need to discover the magic commandline flags to install it right...and no where can I find them on the site I obtained the rpm file.

I'll get it eventually....but, considering that Win95 had an easier add/remove setup, its really frustrating.

So far, I think I've gotten things back to where it was before I started ripping out chunks of hair.

Now, with a clean non-bobified setup, I'll start again. So far so good...XINE is already back up and runnin smooth.

Though I'll be snaggin the latest Mandrake isos shortly.

Don't get me wrong...I'm just venting....So far, I've already learned alot of good stuff...


If the package manage refuses to uninstall a package, whats the prefered way to remove it?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

ok, the issues that are at play with this server don't apply on the box giving me a headache, so I snaged teh AP2 source and am working with that now. I tried previously to install from the supplied RPMs but couldn't get PHP support to work, even though it was sellected. Am trying from a clean install, so hopefully whatever mispathing was previously present will be fixed now...

 

[satans.barber]

Linux isn't really about graphical stuff, most (95%+) problems are fixed from the command line - learn it, love it, it's your new friend

RPM's work well, unless you enter dependancy hell.

In general, you just need:

% rpm -ivh package.rpm

If you're upgrading (like upgrading apache), it's:

% rpm -Uvh package.rpm

If the install fails, it'll tell you that it needs another package usually, and you'll have to grab that. You can also add an extra 'v' to the flags to make it super verbose, which can be useful sometimes.

The sorts of graphical tools you're using won't give you the same feedback, and it'll just take longer!

Also, there's usually excellent installation instructions in the docs that come with the files, so, RTFM

If you want to compile it from source, the standard 3 commands are:

% ./configure
% make
% make install

..and you'll have to be root to do make install. This can vary though, so check the docs.

The installation/uninstallation is the only big drawback with linux really, from a day-to-day point of view. My GPS runs Debian, which has apt-get, which makes life a WHOLE lot easier! You can also try getting urpmi to run on Red Hat, which is a similar kind of thing.

As for media and DVDs etc., Linux was never designed to do that, so don't expect thrilling performance. If you have an nVidia card you can install nVidia's linux drivers, which will improve performace no end.

Ian.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ok, AP2 gave me a ton of fits. configured, maked n installed np, yet refused to run. Gave up for now, cleaned out the files and went back to fighting with 1.3. Started with the most vanilla config and started playing with options. Finally found the right mix to correctly allow DSO.

MYSQL went in ok, I think....but I cant find the files... heh. (Used an RPM.)

Also got php support to work.... combing thru the httpd.conf file here and comparing it line by line with what was generated indicated that despite the install saying it was all set, I still needed to manually edit in some file associations to get things running right.

so, its been a hell of a learning experience....now to go figureout how to get these services to show up in the services thingy. heh.

Thanks for the tips and patience.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Got an nVidia card in there....DVD playbacks good.

urpmi - looking it up. Thanks!

The best thing is having multiple shells open though...and cut-n-paste is definately my friend here.


1 things for certain....I sure got a long way to go b4 taking that cert test. :rofl:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

ok, reinstalled MYSQL, and figured out how to tweak things so the right stuff autoloads, and is in the path. Its a bit creaky, but since this isn't a production server, its ok for now.

Am now loading in a backup copy of MartialTalk.
Bloody database is 360MB!!!!!

The system has recomended I go relax for a bit while it does its thing. (Makes a note - install phpmyadmin fast)

So far, So good.

 

[arnisador]

What is a .rpm file for, anyway?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

RPM's in theory save you from having to do the whole compile/make/install process.

You just use a centralized 'package manager' (similar to the intent behind windows add/remove programs feature) and it does the messy stuff saving you headaches.

When it works.

The biggest problem is, often times you either cant find em, they are a release behind, or the individual releasing the RPM assumes you know how to handle it.

 

[satans.barber]

It's not scary once you get used to it

For RPM's, you should get them from rpmfind.net, which will show you all the latest version numbers etc.

Your services will probably be started from /etc/init.d/

ian@alice:/etc/init.d$ ls my*
mysql
ian@alice:/etc/init.d$

There's MySQL sat in mine you see.

Some things may be started via inetd, which is basically a file with a list of services in - uncomment any services you want. That moves though, so do 'updatedb' as root, then 'locate inetd' as any user to find it. That's more for your daemons, like ftpd, fingerd etc.

Once you install something, it should be added into /usr/bin/ or /usr/sbin/, soemthing like that, which will be in your path, so you can just run it.

Type the first couple of letters of the program at the command line, then press the TAB key (may need to press it twice), you'll see any programs in your path pop up, like this:

ian@alice:/etc$ mysql<tab><tab>
mysql mysqlbug
mysql_convert_table_format mysqlcheck
mysql_find_rows mysqld_multi
mysql_fix_privilege_tables mysqldump
mysql_install_db mysqldumpslow
mysql_setpermission mysqlhotcopy
mysql_zap mysqlimport
mysqlaccess mysqlshow
mysqladmin mysqltest
mysqlbinlog
ian@alice:/etc$ mysql

As for Apache 2, the config files have changes slightly in syntax, so you can't just copy Apache 1.x httpd.conf and commonhttp files over, they need re-tweaking. This is a bit of an ****, but, Apache 2 is more secure, so moving over to the latest release would be a good idea. If someone's going to get into a linux system, the httpd is a firm favourite! But if it's not visible to the Net, don't worry about it.

Remember, if you want to check you're not running any extraneous services on it, you can do:

% nmap -sT localhost

Which will give you a readout of your open ports (obviously you have to have nmap installed, 'rpm -ivh nmapsomething.rpm' if you don't).

You get a readout like this:

ian@alice:/etc$ nmap -sT localhost

Starting nmap V. 2.54BETA31 ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ )
Warning: You are not root -- using TCP pingscan rather than ICMP
Interesting ports on localhost (127.0.0.1):
(The 1538 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed)
Port State Service
9/tcp open discard
13/tcp open daytime
22/tcp open ssh
25/tcp open smtp
37/tcp open time
80/tcp open http
98/tcp open linuxconf
111/tcp open sunrpc
139/tcp open netbios-ssn
143/tcp open imap2
220/tcp open imap3
443/tcp open https
515/tcp open printer
587/tcp open submission
1024/tcp open kdm
10000/tcp open snet-sensor-mgmt


Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 2 seconds
ian@alice:/etc$

Ian.