Taijiquan and Knee Issues?

[Myrmidon]

Knee problems often occur in taijiquan practice when rotation is forced on the knee, a type of movement the knee is not designed for. It is important that the feet are properly adjusted as we practice form in order to keep the knees in a natural alignment. This should ward off most knee issues.

Problems also occur when the knee is nor properly aligned with the ankle. This causes a lot of stress in the knee joint.

 

[DaPoets]

The combat styles of Tai Chi tend to have the knee move past the toes when doing a lot of moves. This over time can build up stress on the knees. In healing styles of Tai Chi like Taoist Tai Chi, the knees are always looked at by instructors to ensure students do not have thier knees go past their toes for the majority of the moves. This aids in balance, stress on the knees, and also works other areas of the body like the hips and spine.

For example, while doing a brush knee, you should be able to look down and see your kneecap as well as your toes.

I hope this helps a bit.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The combat styles of Tai Chi tend to have the knee move past the toes when doing a lot of moves.

aaaa no

All forms of taiji are originally martial and all forms of taiji that are still martial do not all have stances where the knee goes past the toes. Chen, Hao and Yang do not have the knee go past the toes. As a matter of fact neither does Wu or Zhaobao or Fu or any other. The problem I see with Wu is that it tends to be front weighted but it STILL does NOT have a stance where the knee goes past the toes IF it or ANY taiji style is done properly

And ALL taiji forms are also for health.

 

[DaPoets]

A quick google search shows many stances (this one sun style) wher the knee is much further out past the toes.


Here as well:

And the person on the left here:

 

[Xue Sheng]

A quick google search shows many stances (this one sun style) wher the knee is much further out past the toes.

Big deal you judge all on one posture from someone I have never seen before. Who are all of these people, how long have they trained, who was thier sifu, do they actually train REAL taiji with the martial arts intact.

And while we are at this what styles of taiji have you trained outside to the Taoist Tai Chi Society. I have trained Yang, Wu and Chen but mostly Yang.

ALL taiji is for health and ALL taiji is basically martial and ALL taiji if done properly DOES NOT use incorrect stances.

If you are really interested in the truth you can just as easily do a "quick Google search" and find copious videos and pictures of people doing various forms of Taiji that are in the proper stance that does not go beyond the knee.

And as a note camera angles can make all the difference so I am not really looking at the supplied picture as proof of anything

 

[DaPoets]

I think you are taking this a bit too personal... and I wasn't saying anything about all combat tai chi styles, I was just saying that combat styles "tend" to have the knees extend further than the toes and I just supplied a few pics to back up my comments. I would think that everyone here understands that there are no absolutes when it comes to tai chi forms as the styles have been been changing and developing over time. Additionally, the people in those pictures could be "experts" or "beginners", it doesn't matter at all, it just shows that it is being done and I was just addressing that fact.

I would also think that people here would welcome a fresh set of thoughts and eyes, especially on a common concern w/ any martial art when it comes to knee problems.

As with any sign of respect for ones teacher (more so in eastern cultures than here in the States), I do not have multiple sifu's as I also teach Taoist Tai Chi the best way I can which is an art developed by Master Moy Lin Shin. I was lucky enough to study under him for a short time before he passed away and he is known and respected throughout the world for his contributions in building and founding temples in China, Canada, and the US. When I was younger yes I practiced other forms but for the past 12 years I chose to perfect my art of Taoist Tai Chi as best I could, and I volunteer my time to teach others that wish to learn, just as Master Moy did.

If my opinions are not welcome here, I will peacfully leave, but based on the discussions I have seen, you all seem like an open minded bunch.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think you are taking this a bit too personal... and I wasn't saying anything about all combat tai chi styles, I was just saying that combat styles "tend" to have the knees extend further than the toes and I just supplied a few pics to back up my comments. I would think that everyone here understands that there are no absolutes when it comes to tai chi forms as the styles have been been changing and developing over time. Additionally, the people in those pictures could be "experts" or "beginners", it doesn't matter at all, it just shows that it is being done and I was just addressing that fact.

I would also think that people here would welcome a fresh set of thoughts and eyes, especially on a common concern w/ any martial art when it comes to knee problems.

As with any sign of respect for ones teacher (more so in eastern cultures than here in the States), I do not have multiple sifu's as I also teach Taoist Tai Chi the best way I can which is an art developed by Master Moy Lin Shin. I was lucky enough to study under him for a short time before he passed away and he is known and respected throughout the world for his contributions in building and founding temples in China, Canada, and the US. When I was younger yes I practiced other forms but for the past 12 years I chose to perfect my art of Taoist Tai Chi as best I could, and I volunteer my time to teach others that wish to learn, just as Master Moy did.

If my opinions are not welcome here, I will peacfully leave, but based on the discussions I have seen, you all seem like an open minded bunch.

when you make statements like

The combat styles of Tai Chi tend to have the knee move past the toes when doing a lot of moves.

That is a pretty blanket statement and like I said ANY taiji done properly does not stress your knee and the Taoist Tai Chi society does not hold the secret to proper training.

And I have been with the same sifu for almost 14 years so I am not exactly wuse what you are getting at with this statement

As with any sign of respect for ones teacher (more so in eastern cultures than here in the States), I do not have multiple sifu's

I also know a fair amount about Chinese culture; religious, martial art and general life.

Been to Bai Yun Guan too so care to explain what your getting at there?


EDIT

One more question

Have you ever seen Taoist taiji as it is done by Wudang?

 

[JBrainard]

Anyone else experienced this or know someone leaving because of knee issues and reluctancy of the system to allow them to change?

Yes, me.

 

[ggg214]

A quick google search shows many stances (this one sun style) wher the knee is much further out past the toes.


Here as well:

And the person on the left here:

it's easy to figure out that in these pics, their weight are in their knees. in Tai ji, it's called 跪膝 （kneel your knees）. the more they practise in this way, the more hurt they will feel. until one day, they will find out their knees are broken and unrecovered.
also in the pics. their bodys are broken down by part and part because of this posture. tai ji requires the body should become a pipe from head to foot. so then when body receives strength from external, it can draw the strength down to the ground through body pipe. if you don't belive this, go and put one hand on their back and push, to see whether they can stand still.i think you will find it's right or wrong.

 

[Xue Sheng]

it's easy to figure out that in these pics, their weight are in their knees. in Tai ji, it's called 跪膝 （kneel your knees）. the more they practise in this way, the more hurt they will feel. until one day, they will find out their knees are broken and unrecovered.
also in the pics. their bodys are broken down by part and part because of this posture. tai ji requires the body should become a pipe from head to foot. so then when body receives strength from external, it can draw the strength down to the ground through body pipe. if you don't belive this, go and put one hand on their back and push, to see whether they can stand still.i think you will find it's right or wrong.

Good call :asian:

It is simply bad taiji, that is all

 

[East Winds]

DaPoets,

Nice to see a member of the Taoist Tai Chi Society contributing to this board. However you need to realise that because of the restrictions placed on you by the Society in relation to learning and participating in other forms of Tai Chi, your viewpoint will necessarily be restricted. There are several contributors to this board who have vast experience and knowledge of Taiji and I hop you will take the opportunity to continue to enquire about other forms of Taiji. Incidentally I was a member of the TTCS many years ago and worked with both Moy and Eva Wong. That was until I realised just how restricted my own knowledge of Taiji was.

Very best wishes