Tai Chi styles

[lvwhitebir]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1

Perhaps what was meant is that someone practices a "kung fu" style in addition to their Taiji... I suspect that is what was intended.

You are correct, that's what I meant. I'm very used to differentiating the two as separate entities, but they are really the same. To be more specific, I study Tien Shan Pai Kung Fu and Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan.

I think many Chinese stylists study both internal and external styles. They fit together quite nicely, with a lot of the same moves, and definitely complement each other.

WhiteBirch

 

[CraneSpreadWings]

there really is a lot of difference...the Chen Pan Ling tai chi is actually a composite of the Chen, Yang, and Wu styles. it incorporates various postures from the chen style that are left out of the yang, ie buddha pound mortar. it also incorporates viscious kicks and punches which rely on changing speeds and pulling back the gua with the fa jing...like chen style.

chen pan ling ta chi is nominally characterized by the 8-point directionality that I dont think is found in any other form- that would be the most outstanding difference to the eye...
there are also some different body mechanics at play in the way CPL incorporates the Chon Si silk reeling energies, primarily in the opening and closing movements of the various dantien and gua...we use the Chon Si legs that comes from the 'draw tai chi' chi gong and adds torque in the mechanic there...the hip gua have a different internal mechanic the way we play cpl from the yang... hope this helps a bit...my keyboard sucksJJJJ!J!!!!

all in all i feel like the cpl is closer to the original large frame boxing of the chen valley...we perform the set with 'kung hsiung pa pei' or firming the back and hollowing the chest with inclined torso...this makes the form more chang chuan or long fist-y...

Some say chen worked elements of ba gua and hsing yi into this form as well and we practice it with those elements highlighted ie cutting palm/hands like clouds, piercing palm/var. hanging horse, and standing palm/press and brush knee...
the hsing yi three legged stance is found in conjunction with some of the applications
you should check out Chen Pan Ling's Original TaiChi Textbook translated by JGeneral YW Chang...its available from amazon or anne carruther's Chen Pan Ling website....

hope this is
1) sensical
2)all correct
3)helpful
ive done a lot of research on this form and practice it diligently...i am very glad that I found it when i did!!!

later...

ps...my keyboard sucksJ!!!J!J!!J! says j instead of shiftingJ!J!J!

 

[arnisador]

I need to understand more about the significance of large frame, small frame, etc. Are you implying that the original version was large frame?

 

[CraneSpreadWings]

As I have been taught, Small, Medium and Large frame in Taichi refers to the 'Size of the Ball' or how far the Chi is expanded in relation to the body practicing the form, in our school it is customary for the student to progress from a 'Larger' 'ball' to a smaller ball of energy being worked with...(hard to explain kinda)...this relates externally to the size of the 'Frame" one is using to form one's stance...so really the whole idea of 'Frame' relates both to the internal movement of chi as well as to the external concept of stance (if my feet are x distance apart my arms and movements should be in relation to that) and range of motion...Ive had a Cheng Man Ching player/teacher tell me what I was doing was not Tai Chi, but slowed down Kung Fu (meaning external style), and he really was wrong about that.. what i am practicing is Tai Chi with a larger frame...both in external form and movement of energy...

hope this helps and I welcome any comments whatsoever on this concept as it is something I think kind of strange about my school...
by the way...my teacher also teaches the Yang style with the Large Frame...

 

[Caine]

My teacher (Chinese, native of Hong Kong) taught us Wu first, then Yang, then Chen. He used to say that Wu is the son, Yang is the father and Chen is the grandfather. He also used to say that Wu was best to develop the lower body and posture, Yang was best to develop the arms and upper body and Chen was best to develop the head and mental aspects.

Unfortunately, I stopped training in Tai Chi about 5 years ago, mainly to concentrate on Aikido (I was cross training at the time but Aiki was closest to my heart), and partly because I got married and didn`t have the same amount of free time I had when I was single.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Tachi

Just curious...



What styles of Tai Chi do we have represented on the board? If you'd like to add, how long have you studied and what got you interested?

Tachi:asian:

I study the Yang Style, presentes by Terry Dunn, and was introuduced to him by my Master Instructor in Kenpo.

Ive been in it 3 years and have down the Bordsword Form, by Doc Fai Wong, The Long, Short Form by Mr. Dunn.

I got into it purely by accident, but now enjoy it immensely.:asian:

 

[7starmantis]

I just began Yang Style long (108) forms. I'm loving it!! I'm also beginign yoga.


7sm

 

[hubris]

Has anybody had experience with "free form" tai chi? I'm learning the Yang short form. Our teacher gave us a free form "homework assingnment." Any suggestions or comments would be helpful!

"Don't show off and act dumb."

 

[hubris]

Well, I guess we're all doing standing meditation. On the next exhale, open your eyes and post.

"Don't show off and act dumb."

 

[CraneSpreadWings]

After internalizing the coreography of the form and developing proper structural/postural integrity in the skeleton, ligs and muscles it is only natural that one should begin to actually 'play' with the postures and the way they inter-relate. Last week I mentioned to my Sifu that I had been practicing this way with Crane Spreads Wings posture and that I thought Crane Spread Wings was a major 'crux' movement that links all the postures together in different ways...he said 'Tell me more about that..' in traditional Sifu fashion...His opinion was that I should be working with all of the postures this way...going from every posture in the form to every other posture in the form, etc. I think that maybe this kind of study should definately be on personal time, but shouldnt be done until learning Push Hands and soaking up principles the principles of Tai Chi...
To me this is like John Coltrain or Miles Davis. Jazz respects the tradition behind it, and only after learning the proper music theory can the player spread out into improvisation...
Same as Post-structuralism or Post-modernism in philosophy...One must understand the foundations of a structure before rending those foundations...Gotta know about Aristotle before you throw his old crippled *** out the window..

humbly, my two cents

 

[Taiji fan]

I have studied Yang style, since 1993. Done a little Tang Soo Do and will play with whatever weapons I can get my hands on.... :jediduel: I think Taiji lightsabre could be interesting.

 

[East Winds]

Taiji Fan,

Loved the graphic and the concept of light sabre!! Sign me up now!!!

I started learning Taiji in 1989 and was subjected to several "versions" of Yang before finding a teacher who taught Traditional Yang Family Taiji as taught by Yang Zhen Ji the eldest living son of Yang Cheng-fu. Also practice Jian, Sabre, and Tai Chi Ruler, as well as having dabbled in Liu Ho Pa Fa and Bagua.

Did some Chen (laojia) just to find out the relationship between Chen and Yang. Loved it, (and discovered the relationship) but think that cross training (particularly in Taiji) is not a good thing. so now stick exclusivley to Yang.

 

[theneuhauser]

but think that cross training (particularly in Taiji) is not a good thing. so now stick exclusivley to Yang.

why do you think this is not a good thing?

 

[East Winds]

Theneuhauser,

Good question!

I think in the early stages of ones Taiji training, you should try as many styles as are open to you, so that you can decide which style suits you best and which style you would wish to study in depth. I am always wary of teachers who claim to teach several styles and I wonder to what depth their understanding is of each style. It was only when I met the Traditional Yang teacher that I realised I would need another lifetime if I wanted to understand the complexities of Traditional Yang. I studied Chen (for a short time) with a student of Chen Xiaowang and realised I could not study both styles. I just did not have enough time left in this life. And although there is no doubt that the basic priciples of Taiji are common to all legitimate styles of taiji, there is just too much to each style to absorb. Yes, I can make a good stab at Chen style and to an uninitiated eye it would look reasonably good, but it would only be cosmetic. A real Chen stylist would immediately see the lack of depth in my training. So I now devote all my time to studying. practicing and teaching Traditional Yang. After all this time it still surprises me how little I know!

I think to do justice to your style and your teacher, it is only possible to really work on one style.

Regards

 

[theneuhauser]

excellent clarification, east wind!


i would tend to agree with you, many systems are so vast in their scope, that proficiency comes with in depth commitment and many years of concentrated study. personally, i would prefer to focus on chen taiji, but the system is no longer complete and to my knowledge there is noone that knows the whole system anymore, do you know this to be true? incidentally, there is a "student" of chen xiaowang here in tempe, arizona also. he seems to have students in every country.:shrug:

 

[East Winds]

Theneuhauser,

Sorry I can't comment on the state of Chen taiji as I don't know enough about it. I think that undoubtedly things change within family systems and I would doubt that any of the family systems are now "complete" or as they were originally transmitted by their founder! Although I think that the underlying principles will always be present (or should be, otherwise it is no longer worthy to be called a particular family system). I think this is back to the original argument that people have with Cheng Man-ching stylists calling their sytem Yang. I also think it is a pity that some teachers do not see the need to continue their own studies. It is because of this that "variations" keep appearing.

If I had not started working with Yang taiji, I think I would certainly have taken up Chen. It is a wonderful system. I wish you luck with you studies.

Regards

 

[theneuhauser]

as ive heard, chen style once had 5 essential forms among other things. ive been told that nobody knows more than 2 of them plus cannon fist.

 

[Wudang]

Just curios....What is "canon fist" and "scattering hands" ???

Only newbie to tai chi..

 

[theneuhauser]

cannon fist is an explosive power form created to practice chen taiji with combat in mind. and the only scattering hand form ive ever seen was from my old sun/yang instructor. its basically a 2 man sparring set-called scattering hands because unlike push hands, where your almost always in contact with the opponent, you are usually disconnected more like boxing.

 

[TkdWarrior]

Originally posted by theneuhauser

there is a "student" of chen xiaowang here in tempe, arizona also. he seems to have students in every country.:shrug:

but not in India. (
anyways i m doing yang 24 ...hopefully learn yang 103
i m doin it from last 4 months...i started with tai ji becuase i just wanted it soooooooo bad from the very first moment i saw(even before i knew about jet li, some 6.5 yrs back)but couldn't find any teacher around my area...
-TkdWarrior-