Tai Chi roundhouse kick

vic

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Is the video valid? How is the power of the tai chi kick compared to muay thai, karate, and taekwondo roundhouse kicks, about the same, more, or less?

 

Kung Fu Wang

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A: Taiji has no roundhouse kick. You just can't find roundhouse kick in any Taiji form.
B: Form can not define a system. Taiji may not have roundhouse kick in their form, but Taiji has roudhouse kick in their basic training.
A: By using your definition, if a Taiji school also has basic training such as MT flying knee, TKD spin hook kick, BJJ ground game, one can also say that Taiji has flying knee, spin hook kick, ground game.
B: As long as I can find 1 Taiji person who trains roundhouse kick, I can say that Taiji has roundhouse kick.

Who's opinion makes sense to you? A, or B?
 
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Xue Sheng

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Came across and trained different kick in Taijiquan, even knee strikes, palm strikes, pinches and elbows. But in Yang, Chen, Wu and Sun I have never trained a roundhouse kick
 

Kung Fu Wang

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But in Yang, Chen, Wu and Sun I have never trained a roundhouse kick
I also have never seen any Taiji person did roundhouse kick in my life. The OP may put up the 1st Taiji roundhouse kick clip to the public.

IMO, a Taiji person can do roundhouse kick, and Taiji system has roundhouse kick are 2 different things.

In the following clip, he had both hands in Taiji open position posture with Taiji horse stance. Can we say this is "Taiji hand gun shooting"?

 
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vic

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In the following clip, he had both hands in Taiji open position posture with Taiji horse stance. Can we say this is "Taiji hand gun shooting"?


Well, the same guy who taught the roundhouse also teach "taiji football".

 

JowGaWolf

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Well, the same guy who taught the roundhouse also teach "taiji football".

Nothing magical. He changed the direction of the pull. Instead of pulling back the guy ended up pulling upward. This happened when he lowered his stance. Fitness uses similar methods to move the front line. It's all nifty mechanics and some muscle.
 

Jared Traveler

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Vic, great topic. My experience is in TKD and Muay Thai. I never learned a kick below the waist in TKD so I can only analyze a low kick in the context of Muay Thai.

First what is consistent with Muay Thai. Muay Thai kicks uses rotation. Muay Thai low kicks do not pull their heads back for safety either. Muay Thai does sink the lead leg or the ground leg when throwing low kicks.

What Muay Thai does different is they hop off line when kicking. This gets their head off line of counter punching. They sink their ground leg much deeper, they rotate much more. They have a lot more power and safety is built into throwing the kick by proper head position.

I think the person in the video is throwing a decent kick. But they are very exposed to counter punching. They aren't maximizing their potential power. Also there is no distant management in the video. He is unrealistically close when throwing the kick. Which means he is vulnerable before he throws the kick and while he's throwing the kick. In Muay Thai that kick is a close and long range weapon. But mostly something you use to go from a safe distance, hope in close with your head off line, then get back out.

With that said I think the guys kick in the video would work great for a lot of self-defense situations. It's just not on the same level as a Thai kick in accuracy, distance management, safety or power.
 

Oily Dragon

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Is the video valid? How is the power of the tai chi kick compared to muay thai, karate, and taekwondo roundhouse kicks, about the same, more, or less?

The roundhouse is probably one of the most diverse kicks. Practically every art trains are least one form. Like KFW said if Tai chi concepts informed this guys kicking, it's basic fa jin, explosive waist power, as opposed things like straight forward kicks like teeps that are found in some other CMA and SE Asian MA.

The roundhouse commonly seen in competition (in the CMA) are the ones trained for Sanshou, which are basically semi circle instep kicks like these, similar to Lethwei and Muay Thai roundhouse kicks. If the rule set allows throws (e.g. Sanshou), you tend to kick lower targeting the legs and waist. Anything higher puts you at risk for the old leg pick strike throws.

Japanese and Korean styles have their own variations and flair but IMHO they do approach kicks differently, depending on competition format (or lack thereof, where you get people kicking boards etc instead and not really showcasing what a legit fighting kick would look/land like).
 

Oily Dragon

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Afterthought, this type kick in the OP is also very associated with Puroresu Strong Style, specifically because it looks and sounds more realistic than a Western pro wrestling kick.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Well, the same guy who taught the roundhouse also teach "taiji football".

Just for the sake of this discussion. Will it be more impressive that when his opponent pulls his left arm, instead of using force againat force, he borrows his opponent's pulling force, moves forward, and single leg take down his opponent? That will fit Taiji principles "borrow force, yield, sticky, follow, ..." much better.
 

chiquest

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Another example of this kicking method...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDP4owLW-Lw.
 
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