Tae Kwon Do Forms

MI_martialist

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Just a note...if your instructor's answer to a martially related question is...it's just the way we do it...there is a lack of depth there.
 
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Azulx

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I have not done these forms in about 30 years, so I will not comment on the evolution of their presentation. When we did them, there was not all of the bobbing up and down that I see when people do the forms now, so I will not talk about those things.

Big thing...work your base. Work drills to feel the base, the stance, the posture. Make them rock solid. Also, understand actual application for each movement, pose, and posture. When you execute them, execute the application...it will change how you perform.

I would check with your instructors on the technical aspects of the stances and work them..there are inconsistencies.

Agree with the chambering issues as well.

Overall, well done...how much experience do you have and your instructors have?

I have about 20 months of experience. My Instructor started TKD in the 70's and did for 2 years. Then spent about 5 years at ITA where he earned his 2nd Dan until 2009, then started his own school in 2014. The school then closed in 2015, and re opened at a new location and have been there ever since.
 
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Azulx

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Just a note...if your instructor's answer to a martially related question is...it's just the way we do it...there is a lack of depth there.

I think that wherever my instructor trained they didn't go over forms in depth. There seems to be a lack of understanding for certain things, that sometimes becomes noticeable.
 

Earl Weiss

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Just a note...if your instructor's answer to a martially related question is...it's just the way we do it...there is a lack of depth there.
Interesting point.

On the one hand the premise would then be that the instructor knows everything there is to know about a system.

After 40+ years of teaching I occasionally get asked questions I never heard before. Some of those I can not answer off the top of my head. Some of those I research and can find an answer to, and some I cannot find a reason for except that's the way everyone seems to do it. That is the answer I provide to the student. If I have my own rationale I provide that as well, but always explain it is my own rationale and not some widely used or accepted rationale. (At least not to my knowledge.)
 

MI_martialist

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I am not saying that an instructor must know everything, but saying that is just the way we do things shows there is an issue. Now, stating that one does not know but will find out is fine with me...

Everything we do has a martial significance and application...it is a question of finding it out.
 

MI_martialist

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I think that wherever my instructor trained they didn't go over forms in depth. There seems to be a lack of understanding for certain things, that sometimes becomes noticeable.

That is a shame!! Everything in a form, kata, poems, hyung, or whatever you call it has martial application...
 

chrispillertkd

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Everything we do has a martial significance and application...it is a question of finding it out.

Wouldn't that depend on the art? You've expressed a common theme that is popular with the "alternative application" crowd but I tend to think people should avoid measuring a particular art by a different art's standard.

Pax,

Chris
 

Th0mas

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Did a couple of the forms again, hopefully there is some improvement. @Th0mas feel free to comment as you please, I know you have good intentions.

Hi Azulx

That was a marked improvement from the last set you showed at the beginning of the thread. In particular your technique shows better connection with the body movement, applying the body mechanics to the strikes and kicks.
As the previous poster outlined, you don't want the body movement to finish prior to applying the striking technique. The momentum of the first should be applied to the second.
I also will caveat my comments like the previous poster, as how I would perform a similar kata in karate, with a greater emphasis on "dynamic" movement, might be slightly different than TKD. Having said that, having an understanding of the application can't hurt your solo performance.

Now, ratchet up the aggression :).
Good job, keep up the good work.

Cheers

Tom
 

Gnarlie

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Hi Azulx

I'm a Kukki TKD guy but I do practice these forms too. I think there are some general things you can concentrate on to make your forms pop:

Eyeline - focus in the direction you are kicking / blocking / striking - there are a number of occasions where you seem preoccupied with the next move and it causes you to look away / up while you are thinking.

Stance - stretch out the back leg in long walking stance

Kicks - work on flexibility and keep the knee higher, especially with side kicks

Blocks - keep the correct hand form with tight fingers

Generally, forms look powerful when there is high contrast between fast movement and the stop phase - relaxed shoulders and a snappy stop can help. Just like music, where the silence is as important as the note played.

I like your movement style - you have a lot of potential there, and it won't take a lot to bring it to another level.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

Earl Weiss

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Everything we do has a martial significance and application...it is a question of finding it out.

In the Chang Hon system some pattern techniques have symbolism or aesthetic qualities which are not martial in nature.
 

MI_martialist

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Wouldn't that depend on the art? You've expressed a common theme that is popular with the "alternative application" crowd but I tend to think people should avoid measuring a particular art by a different art's standard.

Pax,

Chris

It will very well depend on the "art" but "Martial Arts" are "martial" and everything done has martial application. If we are training in a martial discipline and what we do does not have martial application, why are we doing it? Why not run on a tread mill?

If we are training in an "art" that sometimes has something martial, that is what we would expect. If we are training in a martial discipline, we do not do that. In fact, often, many of the "esoteric" portions of "martial arts" come from a lack of understanding of application.
 

MI_martialist

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In the Chang Hon system some pattern techniques have symbolism or aesthetic qualities which are not martial in nature.

That is nice for art but a waste of time for martial.

Are you sure there is no martial application? Or is it that you and your teachers do not understand the martial application? I know in writing this may seem offensive, but it is not meant that way...just a question.
 
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Azulx

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Is this the average time in your school for reaching black belt, or did you earn yours sooner?

Average time is 2 and half to three years. Under two years is pretty rare.
 

chrispillertkd

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It will very well depend on the "art" but "Martial Arts" are "martial" and everything done has martial application. If we are training in a martial discipline and what we do does not have martial application, why are we doing it? Why not run on a tread mill?

I'm not saying martial arts has no martial application. Of course they do. What I was asking about was your statement that "Everything we do has martial significance and application." If this is true, IMNSHO, you would have to have a definition of "martial significance and application" that is overly broad or simply exclude things that clearly don't have a direct martial application from the "everything we do" category.

If we are training in an "art" that sometimes has something martial, that is what we would expect. If we are training in a martial discipline, we do not do that. In fact, often, many of the "esoteric" portions of "martial arts" come from a lack of understanding of application.

This is quite possible. I would be interested in hearing some examples of what you consider esoteric aspects of martial arts that contain martial applications.

Pax,

Chris
 
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MI_martialist

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I'm not saying martial arts has no martial application. Of course they do. What I was asking about was your statement that "Everything we do has martial significance and application." If this is true, IMNSHO, you would have to have a definition of "martial significance and application" that is overly broad or simply exclude things that clearly don't have a direct martial application from the "everything we do" category.

Everything means everything...martial significance and martial application...not sure what the difficulty in the definition is...if it is not martial, we do not do it...it is either a direct application, component of application, or a martial significance...if not, it should not be done.



This is quite possible. I would be interested in hearing some examples of what you consider esoteric aspects of martial arts that contain martial applications.

I would not know since we do not do esoteric stuff. What are some of the non-martial esoteric stuff that is done?

Pax,

Chris
 
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Azulx

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Is this the average time in your school for reaching black belt, or did you earn yours sooner?

Also for what it's worth, if you're wondering why I was an exception. I started training under my instructor in January of last year. Before testing he told me that since I had started training I had only missed 4 classes. We offer classes generally 3 to 4 times a week. Since this year only three times, but last year we did 4. I had more hours logged between 2 test than some did between 3 and 4. I never asked to test early, my instructor just felt that I had shown that I can do all the colored belt material proficiently enough to test for 1st dan.
 

andyjeffries

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I never asked to test early, my instructor just felt that I had shown that I can do all the colored belt material proficiently enough to test for 1st dan.

So then the rest of it doesn't matter - you didn't ask, your instructor decided, so it's all good. One of the things the Kukkiwon is very hot on for people to stop worrying what other people do in terms of gradings, etc and just worry about your own dojang. Congrats on getting to 1st Dan so fast, you've shown good spirit and I hope you go on to be a great teacher.
 

Earl Weiss

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That is nice for art but a waste of time for martial.

Are you sure there is no martial application? Or is it that you and your teachers do not understand the martial application? I know in writing this may seem offensive, but it is not meant that way...just a question.
1. If all you want is "Martial" you will waste lot of time in a "Martial Art"
2. If the Creator of the form said something was supposed to be symbolic and the symbolism was X, then that is what it was intended to be . If the creator of the form said something was for beauty / aesthetics, then that is what it was meant to be.

So the answer to your questions above are "Yes" and "No".
 

chrispillertkd

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I would not know since we do not do esoteric stuff. What are some of the non-martial esoteric stuff that is done?

I couldn't say, since you were the one who brought up "esoteric" stuff in martial arts and said that they're the result of a lack of knowledge of applications. To wit: "In fact, often, many of the "esoteric" portions of "martial arts" come from a lack of understanding of application."

If you don't know what esoteric elements of martial arts contain martial applications how do you know that the esoteric portions of martial arts are the result of a lack of understanding of those applications in the first place?

Pax,

Chris
 
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