Systema in motion...

[lonekimono10]

I dunno Paul, it looked far too relaxed for a violent situation. You were practically mocking those guys. Could you explain the first two defenses against a knife? I'd like to know how that movement around the head makes the other guy fall, or maybe there were other movements I missed.

A further question: Could the tall wiry teen have pulled off those techniques against a heavy-set guy like you?

you know i was thinking the same thing, i saw this stuff before and i had some things to say about it, and was told that i was attacking this man on what he did, let me say this ,i was asking about the tecq he was doing, and how it looked ,paul did not get back to me, i even put my cell # out there for him to call me, but he did not. i just wanted to know about how he was doing them and people took it like i was attacking this man, i wll say this , NOBODY SWINGS A STICK LIKE THAT GUY DID IN THE VIDEOS ON THE STREET!!!! my daughter in law is Russian,and she is from over there also
she knows a little bit about this style,anyway here we go again.

 

[proud beginner]

it looked far too relaxed for a violent situation.

I fear that I misunderstand you. Can you develop ?

 

[Marginal]

I dunno Paul, it looked far too relaxed for a violent situation. You were practically mocking those guys. Could you explain the first two defenses against a knife? I'd like to know how that movement around the head makes the other guy fall, or maybe there were other movements I missed.

Just from watching the first one a few times, it looks like a trip. The forearm's not operating on its own. Watch the feet.

I don't really get what's happening in the second defense though. At a guess, the inital thurst's redirected, the attacker's just starting to attempt to recover balance, and the weight shift's used against him, which is what causes him to crumple like that. Can't tell if the kick's supposed to just be pushing him back, or applying stopping power. Systema people, am I even close?

 

[lonekimono10]

i would like to know, where did they get that knife stuff they were doing in the car???, i know that if someone puts a knife to your throat amd you try what that guy did, you would be dead!!! come on.:idunno:

 

[Brian King]

lonekimono10 said

"anyway here we go again."

I think sir that you should have said …anyway here I go again.

Once again speaking with such knows it all authority while at the same time speaking out with such obvious closed minded ignorance. Is it any wonder your ‘questions’ or ignored or ridiculed by all except the most tolerent of the Systema people? I wish you good luck sir on your continued battle in learning how to communicate via this medium. I have spoken with some friends of mine from your community (kempo) and they tell me that ya ain’t such a bad guy, just very opinionated and hard headed, just that once you get on line you come across as another one of those 30 year “I have no ego but am always right” types that just loves the sound of their voice (or print) that feels that they must comment on anything and everything so as to reinforce their self esteem.

Nothing personal, I am sure as I was told that you are an alright type of guy, but really, you do seem to come across as an :moon: (imho)
I wonder is that the image that you are trying for when you post? Is it unconscious or conscious this persona that you are adopting on line?

Good luck in your training and in your writing
Hope to see you on the floor soon
Friends
Brian King

 

[lonekimono10]

lonekimono10 said

I think sir that you should have said …anyway here I go again.

Once again speaking with such knows it all authority while at the same time speaking out with such obvious closed minded ignorance. Is it any wonder your ‘questions’ or ignored or ridiculed by all except the most tolerent of the Systema people? I wish you good luck sir on your continued battle in learning how to communicate via this medium. I have spoken with some friends of mine from your community (kempo) and they tell me that ya ain’t such a bad guy, just very opinionated and hard headed, just that once you get on line you come across as another one of those 30 year “I have no ego but am always right” types that just loves the sound of their voice (or print) that feels that they must comment on anything and everything so as to reinforce their self esteem.

Nothing personal, I am sure as I was told that you are an alright type of guy, but really, you do seem to come across as an :moon: (imho)
I wonder is that the image that you are trying for when you post? Is it unconscious or conscious this persona that you are adopting on line?

Good luck in your training and in your writing
Hope to see you on the floor soon
Friends
Brian King

Well Mr King it don't really bother me what you say about me, and as far as what you said about authority and closed minded ignorance???
i can't remember the last time someone called me that, oh wait yes i do, it was when i started Kenpo(not kempo) in 1965 that was the last time that was said to me, well you see Mr King i'm not a person who shoots off at the mouth over nothing, and yes i do think that after the time that i have in the Martial arts (and law inforcement) that i can say that the stuff that was done in the car will get you hurt or killed!! and as far as your system i did not say anything about that, just some of the tecq, and oh yes , what you said about "hope to see you on the floor soon"?? i don't play games.
and i see that you don't have your DOB listed??? why , oh and one more thing i called the # on your web site and a nice man (George) and i was talking, wow you are not even on the site, why???? , oh and please tell my friends i said HI.

ps i want to leve you with something that MR Parker said
"it's not who's right, it's who's left"

 

[SonnyPuzikas]

Mr. Elmer.
While you may take it as personal- it is not. Regardless- I will say what I feel.
You don't know Systema. That is a cold fact. All the references to your age, years (decades) in the arts and not so subtle pokes at other posters- implying their immaturity in arts as compared to your expertise- all of it and general confrontational attitude of yours is projecting huge ego problem. Demanding respect (it is earned commodity BTW), calling people to complain about "disrespect" they have shown towards you- even trying to contact Vladimir to complain about what is your perception of disrespect born of self centered pride. While at the same time I have not noticed much of respect being shown by you, sir, towards the ones you are demanding respect from.
It is a 2 way street.
Assuming that you are more "been there, done that" type than the ones you are arguing with is just that- ASSumption. In some cases you could be very wrong in that...
There is nothing wrong questioning aspects of work you have seen on the video. Making statements "it will get you killed" is wrong without understanding the context of the work, the purpose of specific training drills and without having slightest knowledge of the method or art in question.
While you may have decades in the art of your choice- you fail to grasp that much of Systema training drills are not techniques in context it is practiced in your art. These drills are not designed to teach practitioners the specific defenses against specific threats. Elimination of fear based flinch response, of intention to hit, kick, grab, etc. and gradually replacing it with just movement, emotional detachement in confrontation are just a few concepts I'm guessing you are not aware off being the essence of much Systema training drills.
Mr. Elmer- most of Systema people do not have enough knowledge to make statements about much of what we see in kenpo, kempo in public- while we may feel that many of the things are lacking in some aspects- most of us will not go into Kenpo discussions without making serious and honest effort to understand in some depth the art in question.
Or does your 40 years in kempo gives you the infinite wisdom- knowing the undisputable truth of combat realm?

 

[Brian King]

I will reply in bold sir, please do not consider it yelling or that a special emphasis should be placed on the embolden words I do so for ease of writing and understanding. Pardon my ignoring the usual forum protocols this once.

Well Mr King it don't really bother me what you say about me, and as far as what you said about authority and closed minded ignorance???
i can't remember the last time someone called me that, oh wait yes i do, it was when i started Kenpo(not kempo) in 1965 that was the last time that was said to me

Perhaps that is correct, yet I have heard it of you, read it in your posts on this and various other threads so maybe you are not hearing? It happens. Re-kenpo/kempo oops miss keyed. No insult was intended to Kempo practitioners or kenpo practitioners. That you took the time to correct me …thanks…I hope that you did not take it as an insult?

, well you see Mr King i'm not a person who shoots off at the mouth over nothing,

Yes you are which is the point

and yes i do think that after the time that i have in the Martial arts (and law inforcement) that i can say that the stuff that was done in the car will get you hurt or killed!!

First, thank you for your service in law enforcement. (with an e not an i…one spell checker to another :asian: ) but once again spoken with such arrogance and ignorance. Do not presume to speak for me sir! What you should have said was something along the lines of

IF I tried something like that I would get killed. Instead you have closed your mind and do not see any of the other possibilities. Did you try the movements out before you judged them so harshly on the motions forum? Our did you shoot your mouth off in what appears yet another vain attempt at proving your self worth?

and as far as your system i did not say anything about that,

I never said that you did (did you read the post before replying?), but in fact you did with this statement

"i would like to know, where did they get that knife stuff they were doing in the car???

Bold above by you not me
maybe try reading and understanding before responding?

just some of the tecq,

Uh, again sir, you did not question any technique at all, you just started out with the rolling on floor laughing icon and then proceeded to state a bunch of off topic ‘facts’ as you know them, questioned their teachers and system and then proclaimed how the movements would get you killed!

I await the video of how you would deal with the situation in your police car….Really it would be interesting.

and oh yes , what you said about "hope to see you on the floor soon"?? i don't play games.

Really, never? I pity you. So besides appearing close minded, arrogant, self serving you seem to have no sense of humor, very sad.

and i see that you don't have your DOB listed??? why ,

Really your obsession with age is quite curious. It reminds me of two E1 soldiers (privates who usually just got their haircut and will be promoted to E2 as soon as they learn how to polish their boots arguing about who outranks who, it always ends with “what is your time in service, what’s yours…June 14th HA mine is June 13th) I have added my birthday to my profile, will you send me a card?

oh and one more thing i called the # on your web site and a nice man (George) and i was talking

Oops! My bad, we moved out of his school after we got our own place a couple of years ago. We trained there (Aikido Eastside) for a couple of years and I was a student of his for a number of years prior to that. Any of his students get 50% off of our tuition as one way of thanking him for giving me the space, and the time and the sharing of his experiences that allowed me to grow our program from a simple study group to what it is today. We are still very good friends. I thought my profile here had been updated. I tried to update again but for you sir here is my web page http://systemanw.com not that I can see how it matters. I am glad that you got a chance to talk to George he is a wonderful person and very knowledgeable. George has problems sleeping and has not been feeling well. I hope that you took time zones into consideration before you called him, but I would guess in your hurry to shoot off your mouth you did not, am I right. What time did you call him sir?

wow you are not even on the site, why????

See above

, oh and please tell my friends i said HI.

Uh again read the f’n post jeez. I have friends, if you do I have not meet them.

ps i want to leve you with something that MR Parker said
"it's not who's right, it's who's left"
Uh..thanks….but I am a Replubican..one of the few things George (the nice man you called on the phone) and I disagree.

Good luck in your training
Hope to see you on the floor soon
Friends
Brian King

 

[Brad S.]

Brian and Sonny,

Thank you for your posts. I am happy to know that my assessment of said poster was not just me.

 

[lonekimono10]

brad you are a funny guy

 

[shesulsa]

Moderator Note.
Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26480 Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

-Georgia Ketchmark
-MT Senior Moderator-

 

[Loki]

Guys, like the mod said, please keep the flame wars outta the thread. My comment was made to understand the reasoning and technique behind what I saw, and while I admit to being skeptical, I respect Paul. Drop the ad hominem and use actual arguments.

 

[proud beginner]

Guys, like the mod said, please keep the flame wars outta the thread. My comment was made to understand the reasoning and technique behind what I saw, and while I admit to being skeptical, I respect Paul. Drop the ad hominem and use actual arguments.

May we state that on this one we agree ?

 

[tshadowchaser]

as a member not a mod i post this

please keep the bold type to a decent level it hurts my eyes plus it equates to shouting

Now back to the techniques and what they showed and how the people moved to accomplish the techniques please

I saw some good movement that was fluid and damn effective in some of the clip

 

[Brian King]

Marginal and Loki
You are not being ignored…it is Paul’s’ thread and his clip so I feel he should have the first privilege of answering your questions. I am sure that he is busy and will be back shortly. It will be interesting and I look forward to the dialogue.

Sorry the thread got off track a bit.

Some people, and the way that they state things tend to get my short hairs tied up.
My apologies. My tolerance of fools has been short lately, which as you can imagine often makes looking in the mirror difficult.

See you on the floor soon
Friends
Brian King

 

[arnisador]

Systema and Kenpo are really on opposite ends of the scale as far as their approaches to training go...Systema doesn't even want to teach single strikes, while Kenpo teaches multi-strike responses to a long list of enumerated situations. People are bound to talk past one another!

 

[lonekimono10]

I would like to say to Mr King thank you for the phone call, it was great talking with you and getting past with what happen,with the way i put things down, and let me say that i'm sorry if i said anything to get the people in your system upset,i'm kenpo and you are right i don't know your style, and thank you for the insite in your art, hope we can talk again, thank you.

 

[Paul Genge]

It is amazing what can happen when you spend the week away training and not sparring on the internet.

The answer to all the questions is simple. Either you have a authorised instructor nearby and you can check this stuff out, then make an informed decission or if not find something else to worry about.

If in the NW of the UK feel free to look me up.

Thanks,

Paul Genge

 

[Loki]

The answer to all the questions is simple. Either you have a authorised instructor nearby and you can check this stuff out, then make an informed decission or if not find something else to worry about.

Doesn't that kinda defeat the point of a martial arts forum? The idea is for us to talk about martial arts and learn from experts in arts we don't have access to, among other things. If I were to express opinions only on arts I've seen personally, I'd be restricted to Krav Maga, Ninjitsu and ever so little TKD.

 

[Paul Genge]

The obvious question is, "Are you trying to learn from other martial arts or just run your mouth of in an attempt at scoring points?"

Systema is like any other martial art. You need access to tuition to learn it. This cannot be gained through cyber space, it needs real one to one contact. The purpose of articles on forums are to spark interest in people that would seek a little real experience.

If you do not think it is for you fine, go find something that is. If there is a class near you and you really have issues with what we do please attend. I will be away for a few days. Please do not get too excited while I am away.

Paul Genge