Striking Serpents Head

[Dominic Jones]

Striking Serpent's Head (copied from Len Brassard's Family Martial Arts Center- Thank you)

Attack: The opponent approaches you from the front and grabs you in a bearhug - your arms are free.

Defense:
From a natural stance, step your right foot back into a left neutral bow (12:00) as you execute a left hooking back-knuckle strike. Simultaneous with the back-knuckle strike bring your right open hand into a cover position between the opponent's head and your chest/face
Slide your left hand along the opponent and grab the hair at the crown of his head.
With his hair in your left hand, anchor your left arm and pivot to a left forward bow as you execute a whipping half-fist strike to the opponent's throat. Return to the left neutral bow and execute a left front crossover and cover towards 6:00.


Question
When you anchor back your left hand, whilst grabbing the hair (if they have any!) I find that I drag the attackers head too far to the left, so making the half fist strike akward- I feel i don`t have directional harmony. Any comments?

Cheers
Dom

 

[KenpoDragon]

That's not the way I learned the technique, but if it works for them, then so be it. Here's my version......

1.As your opponent grabs you, with your right hand counter grab your opponent's upper left arm/bicep. Step back with your right foot towards 6 o'clock settling into a left neutral bow, anchoring your opponent's left arm to your right hip.

2. Simultaneously deliver a left hook punch to your opponent's mastoid (back of his head).

3. Immediately grab either your opponent's hair or eyes with your left hand, while anchoring your elbow in to your opponent's spine.

4. With your opponent's head raised up leaving his throat (neck) exposed, execute a right hand leopard's paw strike to his/her throat.

5. Cross out and cover towards 6 o'clock.

That's just the base technique didn't know if you wanted the "whole" enchilada. I personally don't see the necessity for a left forward bow, since you are so close to your opponent. I also don't understand the right hand checking at chest level, your opponent has grabbed you in a bear hug, his face is buried in your chest. Is it a palm strike??? One of the things that we learn in Kenpo is when your opponent grabs you, you counter grab them. Well everyone does things differently. I'm sure you'll get plenty of variations for this one.

:asian: KenpoDragon

 

[c2kenpo]

Well that is the beauty of kenpo, that you can have a ton of different situations.
The attack itself was described to me as an attempted tackle (not from a distance but up close i.e double leg takedown) a bearhug did not make this work at all for me (thin frame) besides what was my awareness that allowed an opponent to actually bearhug me from the front. When the attacker makes the tackle attempt
1) Drop back into your left neutral bow (or settle into it) I like to explode dropping my weight down (this allows me to get a bracing angle for the tackle as I make my hooking strike to the back of the head. I also keep my right hand loaded at my side inan open heel palm (or fist) that usually the attacker "runs" into accidentally.
I think looking at the tech at the first base move always will help clean it up a bit from then on you pretty much have it but the opponent will be close the whole time, rememebr he is attemting to tackle you.

The forward bow in SSH is a transitional stance for a lot of "what if's"
1) What if you stun the attacker in the head but on the hair grab don't get a good anchor?
2)What if this is a relative/ freind that has had to much to drink, and you are simply controlling them?
3)What if you are opting instead of crushing the attackers windpipe (takes all the fun out of it of course) and delivering a heel palm instead to move the attacker out of your way?

The forward bow is a transitonal stance allowing for greater depth of penetration with whatever strike you are using.

The best part of kenpo ihave found is that everyone will have "techs" that they feel comfortable with and those they dont' just keep practicing till you run into someone who can explain it to fit you.

JMHO

Dave Gunzburg

 

[KenpoDragon]

I am sorry c2kenpo but if you read Mr.Jones' post you would have noticed "he" stated the attack was a front bear hug, not a tackle. By the way the attack is clearly a bear hug not a tackle. Look on the Web of Knowledge. "What ifs" are fine but he did not ask for "What Ifs", he asked a straight question, don't you think he deserves a straight answer??? Charging Ram is the first answer for the tackle, not Striking Serpent's Head. Sorry to pop your bubble.

:mst: KenpoDragon

 

[Michael Billings]

Here is how I teach the technique in the ideal, however I stress leverage and fulcrums when anchoring the elbow and teach the alternate grab points (orbital of the eye, nose, mouth [yuk] or even the left shoulder, clavicle or throat.

15. STRIKING SERPENT'S HEAD (front bear hug - arms free)

1. Drop back with your right foot (to 6:00) into a left neutral bow. Simultaneously hook your left hand around and back of opponent's head so that your left knuckle or left inner wrist bone strikes to opponent's left temple or mastoid while your right hand cocks into a half fist at chest level.
2. Immediately have your left hand grab and pull opponent's hair back (above the forehead) as you shift into a left forward bow (toward 12:00) and execute a thrusting half fist to opponent's throat, immediately returning to your left neutral bow after the half fist strike.

Oss!

 

[c2kenpo]

Originally posted by KenpoDragon
I am sorry c2kenpo but if you read Mr.Jones' post you would have noticed "he" stated the attack was a front bear hug, not a tackle. By the way the attack is clearly a bear hug not a tackle. Look on the Web of Knowledge. "What ifs" are fine but he did not ask for "What Ifs", he asked a straight question, don't you think he deserves a straight answer??? Charging Ram is the first answer for the tackle, not Striking Serpent's Head. Sorry to pop your bubble.

:mst: KenpoDragon

Sorry I may not have been really clear on this. Not a charging tackle for Striking Serpents head but more of imagine yourself standing and grappling with your opponent shoulders and arms held and he drops to bearhug/tackle you this is what I mean by a tackle or takedown. My apologies for the confusion.
I was just sharing how I was taught and my views as how it works for me. This is how our school teaches the attack, not from the position when your opponent actually has penetrated enough of your space to grab you effectivly.

JMHO

David Gunzburg

 

[Touch Of Death]

Question
When you anchor back your left hand, whilst grabbing the hair (if they have any!) I find that I drag the attackers head too far to the left, so making the half fist strike akward- I feel i don`t have directional harmony. Any comments? [/B]

Well I feel the answer is simple enough. The half fist requires a higher skill level to perform especialy on a writhing opponent; so, I would consider an inward sword hand to the throat or a heel palm strike to the chin. While, by your prompting, I visualized this tech I see the potential for injury to your panther strike if you were to pull the head too far back, you might puch through the throat an damage your hand on his jaw. In fact forget your hands all toguether... I would peform a Mui Thai style elbow to the chin.(an over the top strike)

 

[Handsword]

During the initial move (dropping back with the right leg and striking with the left hand) I use my right elbow to strike and anchor down into the opponent's left upper wrist or forearm.

This may appear as a cocked right hand, ready to cover/strike (which it is), but it is really the elbow doing the work.

This is similar to the technique Crashing Wings (although done from the front instead of the back and with only one 'wing') and is used to break/hinder the attacker's grip.

On a side note, I treat the IDEAL intent of a frontal bearhug with the arms free as the precursor to a lift, sweep and dump manoeuvre for someone who wants to take the fight to the ground. From the attackers point of view, the lift works best when the 'victim' is as close as possible which can include burying the head into the chest. For this reason, Striking Serpent's Head is a useful technique, as frontal strikes to the eyes or throat may not be immediately available.

If the attacker doesn't have this intent (or the like), then a frontal bearhug with the arms free should be pretty easy to deal with. After all, he/she's got both arms occupied and you've got two hands free well within striking range.

 

[rmcrobertson]

The "directional harmony," issue can be handled in exactly the way Michael Billings already mentioned--rest the half-fist punch that ends the basic technique on top of a good solid left forward bow.

Just to take the point a little further, changing the weapon at this point is probably symptomatic of a deeper problem: interpreting techniques in terms of the weapons, strikes, blocks, etc., without taking stances into account. In fact, if you don't turn to the forward bow, the changes of weapons become necessary--and the ones mentioned (hand-sword, heel palm, elbow) are pretty much what would then have to be employed.

But they still won't have any power, and they won't solve any directional harmony issues. That requires stance...

Interestingly, the sweep, etc. mentioned does seem to be an integral part of the extension/ending to SSH.

Thanks,
Robert

 

[Kenpomachine]

Originally posted by c2kenpo
The forward bow is a transitonal stance allowing for greater depth of penetration with whatever strike you are using.

The forward bow is not transitional. Pivoting from neutral to a forward bow allows you not just to gain depth of penetration, but also gives you power.
You get the hip and your legs to be involved in the strike, and not only your upper body.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Kenpomachine
The forward bow is not transitional. Pivoting from neutral to a forward bow allows you not just to gain depth of penetration, but also gives you power.
You get the hip and your legs to be involved in the strike, and not only your upper body.

Sorry to disappoint you but any stance other than neutral is considered a transitional stance. Though is may appear as not, we strive to get back to the original as a rubber band comes back to it's original. As you extend the rubber it gains kinetic energy, it releases it as it retracts, same concept as the forward, reverse, wide and close kneels, the difference being is we are able to gain power from both the forward and reverse motion of these stances from our ability to shift weight.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[c2kenpo]

Look I don't believe in "Sorry to dissapoint you" all I do is "share" my knowledge base when we go to tech talk about techniques.
I have had the opportunity to train with so many great martial artists these last few years the one greatest lesson I took from all of them is that

This is how I do it....this may or may not work for you but it is just they way this story went. Now make it work for you.

Journey Well

Dave

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by c2kenpo
Look I don't believe in "Sorry to dissapoint you" all I do is "share" my knowledge base when we go to tech talk about techniques.
I have had the opportunity to train with so many great martial artists these last few years the one greatest lesson I took from all of them is that


Journey Well

Dave

Exactly what is your point of this post?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Kenpomachine]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Sorry to disappoint you but any stance other than neutral is considered a transitional stance.

Clyde

Thanks for the clarification. Better be dissapointed for a minute than being left alone with a wrong assumption.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Kenpomachine
Thanks for the clarification. Better be dissapointed for a minute than being left alone with a wrong assumption.

My attempt to bring light to part of the family dude, glad I could help.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[ob2c]

Originally posted by Dominic Jones
Striking Serpent's Head Question
When you anchor back your left hand, whilst grabbing the hair (if they have any!) I find that I drag the attackers head too far to the left, so making the half fist strike akward- I feel i don`t have directional harmony. Any comments? Dom

Sounds like it could be a problem with the way he's attacking. If he grabs you "dojo style", standing in front with his nose burried in your chest, I can see how this might be a problem. No one on the streets is going to burry their nose in your chest, however. Their face will be turned a little to the side. And they don't just grab and stand there, they probably intend to put you down.

So, in the ideal phase, he grabs you and pulls you in close, his head turned to his left. I was taught a left back knuckle to his left temple, which whips in very nicely. Immediately grab the hair (or other hold if no hair) and anchor the elbow, and he is in perfect position for the half fist to his throat.

As for the forward bow, we are taught it can be purely transitional, giving proper angle of incidence and power then snaping back to the neutral bow. But if he has forward presure or momentum you momentarily lock it out. Still transitional, but also gives a solid brace to deal with his depth/forward motion before returning to the neutral bow.

Incidentally, this is a good one to practice on both sides since he can't be relied on to allways turn his head to the left.

 

[Maltair]

Originally posted by ob2c

Incidentally, this is a good one to practice on both sides since he can't be relied on to allways turn his head to the left.

I'm not positive but I believe this is the reason our school teaches this tech a little diff.

Instead of a back Knuckle to the back of the head, we box the ears. Gives the opp a good stun as well as straightning the head for the left hand to pull head back and right tiger paw to thoat.

This is just how I wear my suit :asian:

 

[MisterMike]

If you take out the left hooking inverted back-knuckle, strike, you lose the match to the right hander in Obscure Claws.

The two-hander is a great what-if though Thank you for that.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by c2kenpo
Sorry I may not have been really clear on this. Not a charging tackle for Striking Serpents head but more of imagine yourself standing and grappling with your opponent shoulders and arms held and he drops to bearhug/tackle you this is what I mean by a tackle or takedown. My apologies for the confusion.
I was just sharing how I was taught and my views as how it works for me. This is how our school teaches the attack, not from the position when your opponent actually has penetrated enough of your space to grab you effectivly.

JMHO

David Gunzburg

Well sir thanks for the explanation. That takes the attack from a "bear hug" to an "attempted bear hug." On an attempt, almost anything is "possible" because of the mechanics involved. Most "attempted" assaults of all types are relegated to essentially the same types of mechanical responses outside of the "grappling" perspective.

For some there exists confusion because "attempts" tend to be labeled as "actuals." Some take the idea of attacks with punches and extend it to these type of "hands on" assaults when they are in actuality "night and day" conceptually and mechanically. An "attempted" punch and an "actual" or completed punching assault are obviously different. That logic should be extended to hands on" techniques where an attacker has already engaged the victim as well.

Additionally, I might point out that the popular version of this technique assumes a person has "hair" (as alluded to in a previous response), and that the designated technique response is appropriate.

I would strongly suggest you reconsider the efficacy of striking directly in the throat for a person who is "attempting" a bear hug, and the consequences both morally and legally of such actions.

I was taught by Parker to use a series of mechanisms before and after the strike to come into moral and legal compliance with the level of the assault. First to mis-align, strike, takedown, and then control a finishing final counter-strike.

As one suggestion you might consider experimenting with the mechanics of a "nose fulcrum" and a heel-palm strike to the tip of the mandible as an alternative solution. Also be aware if you continue to perform this technique as an "attempt" in a realistic street encounter, if your first strike is not successful, you will be knocked off balance backwards possibly to the ground as your attacker continues forward with their body mass even when it is not a "tackle."

I'm sorry I can't "tell" you how to do this over the forum, and nothing I've said should be construed to suggest that you cannot strike a person with deadly force if you feel you are in imminent threat of great bodily harm, or death.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Sorry to disappoint you but any stance other than neutral is considered a transitional stance. Though is may appear as not, we strive to get back to the original as a rubber band comes back to it's original. As you extend the rubber it gains kinetic energy, it releases it as it retracts, same concept as the forward, reverse, wide and close kneels, the difference being is we are able to gain power from both the forward and reverse motion of these stances from our ability to shift weight.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

As if the neutral wasn't also transitional :shrug: