Street guys. Please give direct technical answers.

[Kung Fu Wang]

So therefore no martial arts prepares you for self defence. Because they all have limited variables and a street fight has unlimited variables.

- Standing in a small circle and dodge opponent's tennis ball throwing,
- Jumping off from roof top,
- Kicking a stick on the ground into opponent's hand,

were part of my high school MA training. Today, people don't train these any more.

 

[drop bear]

- Standing in a small circle and dodge opponent's tennis ball throwing,
- Jumping off from roof top,
- Kicking a stick on the ground into opponent's hand,

were part of my high school MA training. Today, people don't train these any more.

Yeah. But I now have an infinite pool of street fighting variables to draw from.

At some point you will run out of applicable training drills.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

I do think there's a limit to how much we can anticipate and prepare for when we're talking about combat. I mean, do you consider the possibility that your opponent outside the golden lion on a Friday night might be equipped with flame artillery?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

So therefore no martial arts prepares you for self defence. Because they all have limited variables and a street fight has unlimited variables.

I didn’t say that. Anything is better than nothing, but there is no way to know what type of situations can unfold in public. Let’s be clear, some streets are far and away more dangerous than others. If you haven’t spent time there, you may not even recognize certain dangers for what they are. Your chances of being robbed at gun point are far lower in Australia than in Southern California, New York, Chicago, Baltimore, etc etc. Being prepared for that has more to do with understanding cultural cues than martial arts. You may fancy yourself the toughest martial artist in the place, but it won’t matter a lick when some 14 year old is pointing a pistol at you. That situation just won’t happen in a ring, and it’s not comparable in my mind, having personally been in both situations multiple times. Have you been shot at? Robbed and beaten by multiple people at the same time? Robbed while being attacked by dogs? It may change your perspective about how prepared you imagine you are.

 

[drop bear]

I didn’t say that. Anything is better than nothing, but there is no way to know what type of situations can unfold in public. Let’s be clear, some streets are far and away more dangerous than others. If you haven’t spent time there, you may not even recognize certain dangers for what they are. Your chances of being robbed at gun point are far lower in Australia than in Southern California, New York, Chicago, Baltimore, etc etc. Being prepared for that has more to do with understanding cultural cues than martial arts. You may fancy yourself the toughest martial artist in the place, but it won’t matter a lick when some 14 year old is pointing a pistol at you. That situation just won’t happen in a ring, and it’s not comparable in my mind, having personally been in both situations multiple times. Have you been shot at? Robbed and beaten by multiple people at the same time? Robbed while being attacked by dogs? It may change your perspective about how prepared you imagine you are.

Have you been attacked by a golden lion on a Friday night that might be equipped with flame artillery?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Have you been attacked by a golden lion on a Friday night that might be equipped with flame artillery?

I would not classify her as such, but yes.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Have you been attacked by a golden lion on a Friday night that might be equipped with flame artillery?

I am quite interested to learn how to be prepared for that. She definitely submitted me in the ensuing wrestling match, My knees were also badly burned by the flaming artillery.

 

[HighKick]

Yes we definitely try, combat judo is our foundation, but often times an abrupt stop of momentum and an upward elbow to the chin is just what it takes to make it all work.

And to be clear, I am not necessarily talking about Chinese flow and such, two opposing forces crashing into each other as you mentioned is cancelling out their energy. Granted, you are giving something to get something, but it works as long as you are selective with your body parts vs. their body parts..

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The most important thing in street fight is to protect your head not to be punched. Most of the street guys won't kick to your head. Your body can take more punching power than your head can. So, the question is how to protect your head?

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Crash helmet?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Crash helmet?

Long guard is the answer. There are 2 solutions:

1. Pre-occupied your opponent's attacking path so attack can't get in.
2. Shoot down your opponent's attack when it enters that path.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

*Hurriedly cancels order for rocket launchers*
Yeah, that sounds sensible.

 

[Anarax]

It is near impossible to say where SD training will have specific advantages, but they are definitely out there based on the situation.
For restrain, MMA is going to win almost every time. But to end an altercation in the shortest time and minimal effort it is hard to look away from sound SD.

Situation awareness, de-escalation and threat assessment are all valid skill sets to have. I agree it's not an either or scenario with self-defense and MMA/sport, you can do both. A lot of the disagreements with these discussions stems from thinking that SD unarmed fighting skills are completely different than MMA/MA/sport unarmed fighting skills.

I feel like this thread is just mental masturbation for the mma is the best crowd. Regardless of rule sets, the distinction is an implausible comparison that is essentially meaningless since each and every sport fight starts the exact same way and every street encounter is unique and varied.

It could be for some. However, the points raised about the viability of MMA/sport training used in a physical altercation are valid. We can create scenarios which would make any type of training ineffective. In sparring(rolling, randori, striking) we and our sparring partners transition through various positions throughout the round. Striking: range(close, medium, long), bias, angle, inside, outside, etc. Grappling: full mount, side-control, back, north/south and a plethora of grip and guard variations. We train both how to attack and defend from these positions, all of which are positions you can find yourself in during an altercation, your starting position(s) means very little.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I feel like this thread is just mental masturbation for the mma is the best crowd.

What are missing in MMA?

- Hit/takedown and run mobility.
- Punch the guy in front of you and kick the guy behind of you at the same time.
- Weapon fight.
- Dodge throwing rocks/darts.
- ...

 

[Badhabits]

And the many, many pics online of MMA guys with knife wounds and bullet holes in them after they decided to "teach someone a lesson"

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Situation awareness, de-escalation and threat assessment are all valid skill sets to have. I agree it's not an either or scenario with self-defense and MMA/sport, you can do both. A lot of the disagreements with these discussions stems from thinking that SD unarmed fighting skills are completely different than MMA/MA/sport unarmed fighting skills.


It could be for some. However, the points raised about the viability of MMA/sport training used in a physical altercation are valid. We can create scenarios which would make any type of training ineffective. In sparring(rolling, randori, striking) we and our sparring partners transition through various positions throughout the round. Striking: range(close, medium, long), bias, angle, inside, outside, etc. Grappling: full mount, side-control, back, north/south and a plethora of grip and guard variations. We train both how to attack and defend from these positions, all of which are positions you can find yourself in during an altercation, your starting position(s) means very little.

I hear you, I don’t mean that martial arts skills aren’t useful. I don’t mean that mma is ineffective in any way. I am saying that sport/ring competition fighting bears very little resemblance to the dynamics involved in most street confrontations in my experience, and in my opinion as a result of that experience. It’s certainly relatable, but not comparable, in my opinion. Your mileage may vary depending on “your streets, your experiences, your perspective”.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

And the many, many pics online of MMA guys with knife wounds and bullet holes in them after they decided to "teach someone a lesson"

I actually know one that died that exact way. Part of why I assert the opinion that I have so stridently. Alex was his name. Someone hit his car out front of his gym, he ran out to catch them to get info, they shot him in the street and he died. Alex was a superb martial artist. Alex would have crushed this POS that killed him if it were a ring fight, or a competition.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

What are missing in MMA?

- Hit/takedown and run mobility.
- Punch the guy in front of you and kick the guy behind of you at the same time.
- Weapon fight.
- Dodge throwing rocks/darts.
- ...

Nothing is missing, it’s perfect for doing what it does. Proof is there.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Nothing is missing, it’s perfect for doing what it does. Proof is there.

This is missing in MMA.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

This is missing in MMA.

Ok we don’t have sport to the death. That may indeed change the conversation.