street altercations

[kevin kilroe]

Having trained in Kenpo for close to seven years, I feel confident that if push comes to shove I would be able to defend myself successfully. There is, however, that small part of me that says "Will it work?" I would like to hear of anyones FIRST encounter with danger. How did you fare? I hope I never have to find out but you never know.

Full Salute


Kevin Kilroe

 

[Rich Parsons]

Kevin,

Are you looking for Kenpo specific techniques? or just in general?

Thanks

 

[kevin kilroe]

kepo specific techniques, if they worked, etc.

Kevin

 

[Ceicei]

So what you are asking is whether anyone has actually used a kenpo/kempo technique during an altercation, not just simply some random blocks, kicks, and punches?

- Ceicei

 

[kevin kilroe]

Yes. After all the training, when that first altercation happens,does kenpo just take over without even thinking about it?

Kevin

 

[Gotkenpo?]

Most of my altercations happened before i even started kenpo which was 8 months ago, and before that i was trainign myself for about 8 months as well. All i can say is that i was able to defend myself better when i was training myself, then i could when i started kenpo even though i didn't get beat up...kind of weird, but i kinda already had a good idea of what worked and didn't work for me on the street, and when i started kenpo, i had to learn a bunch of techniques that i felt wouldn't work.

Therefore, i've decided over the past few days to leave kenpo, and get back to training the RBSD (reality based self defence) stuff that has worked so well for ME.

my two cents.

 

[Gotkenpo?]

Also i've never studied EPAK but i have seen demos, and it seems that alot of the techniques require fine motor skills, and there are alot of techniques. Well when the adrenaline is flowing, your fine motor skills are pretty much gone, and all i gotta say is that the basics will be what saves your ***.

Trying to remember certain techniques will most likely get you owned.

another two cents.

PS: I didn't mean in any way to bash EPAK systems at all.

 

[Seig]

Remember the equation formula? I worked for years as a bouncer. I have used techniques that I applied the equation formula to in many situations. Sometimes the formula is required to tone down a technique.

 

[Bill Smith]

Your muscle memory from doing the techniques has alot to do with if its going to work. I had a student who came to me after a situation, he felt bad but was impressed with what came out. He had only been training for close to a year. He was attacked by two guys, he said he dropped one with Delayed Sword (that's a automatic muscle memory tech.) and got part of Five Swords off before the second guy ran off.

Sorry for rambling, I thought I'd share that.

Yours in Kenpo,
Bill Smith

 

[Bill Smith]

Your muscle memory from doing the techniques has alot to do with if its going to work. I had a student who came to me after a situation, he felt bad but was impressed with what came out. He had only been training for close to a year. He was attacked by two guys, he said he dropped one with Delayed Sword (that's a automatic muscle memory tech.) and got part of Five Swords off before the second guy ran off.

Sorry for rambling, I thought I'd share that.

Yours in Kenpo,
Bill Smith

 

[kevin kilroe]

That isn't rambling. That's what I want to hear about. Thanks!

Kevin

 

[rmcrobertson]

I actually just wanted to ask two questions:

1) how'd anybody manage--unless they're a police officer--to get into so many different "street altercations," that they now know exactly what will work and what won't in all situations;

2) which techniques AREN'T "muscle memory," techniques?

Thanks.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
I actually just wanted to ask two questions:

1) how'd anybody manage--unless they're a police officer--to get into so many different "street altercations," that they now know exactly what will work and what won't in all situations;

Rob- You must think that a LEO gets into alot of fights. Not every situation that they encounter is going to be a brawl. Someone could be sitting in a bar, a club, a concert or where ever and get into a situation. You could be sitting there minding your own business and just because someone else in the place doesnt like the way you look, what you're wearing, or the way you might have glanced over at them, they will start something with you. Something happened recently in a town in the state that I live. A guy was having a few drinks with his girlfriend, who happened to be black, he was white. The other guy apparently didn't like that, and him and his 3 sons proceeded to beat the hell out of this guy. So, it just goes to show that trouble can be anywhere.

2) which techniques AREN'T "muscle memory," techniques?

Yup. They all should be a reaction to the situation. You shouldnt have to think about what you're gonna do.

Mike

 

[Rick Wade]

Well there I was a Haouli (White boy) in the wrong part of Pearl City, Hawaii. A guy walks up to me in a jacket (I should have been paying attention who wears a jacket in Hawaii) and asks if he could have a dollar. I replied that I do not give money to strangers. He quickly reaches in his jacket and pulls out a knife with his right hand and says how about now. At that point I reached in my back pocket and grabbed my wallet. My wallet can be replaced and there was only $15 dollars in it and credit cards can be cancelled. There was no doubt in my mind I was going to give him my wallet.

In that instant without thinking of it I grabbed his right wrist with my right hand closing his width. I then executed an upward punch to his face while seriously hyper extending (if not breaking) his arm. I then gave a right snap kick to his left knee. At that point I let go of him and took a step back. He went to the ground and then got back up and ran with a really bad limp.

Here is the kicker (no pun intended) I did not intent to do any of this but thanks to my instructors and past training my muscle memory took over. After the incident I sat down and started shaking like a leaf because like most Martial Artist the extent of my altercations happened in the dojo or the tournament circuit.

Moral of the story: Your Body knows exactly what it can do.

Thanks
Rick

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by kevin kilroe
I want to know if specific Kenpo techniques work? Kevin

I'm sure that someone here will have a story or two of a "specific" Kenpo technique that worked in a street situation.

However, there is a common misconception that they are supposed to! The truth of the matter is ..... that the techniques are "drills" that teach coordination, and other essential information such as target selection, angle delivery and a host of principles that if repeated often and studied will aid you in the advancement of your ability to defend yourself in any number of situations.

Your sum total of information intake + abundance of hours drilling in addition to knowledge research and understanding = the scales being tipped in your favor to walk away from such a confrontation.

Of all the work you invest, such as Boxing, Judo, sweeps, freestyle, basics, forms, grappling, tournaments, class drills, heavy bag work, speed ball work, stretching, and any other type of training you may have done..... etc. etc.......... will come out when needed..... hell I don't know what type of action I will use when confronted....... but I can tell you this.... it will be a result of my training in some fashion... whether it is Delayed Sword or any combination of Basics that I have learned..... actually .... I don't care exactly what comes out as long as I walk away!

:asian:

 

[kevin kilroe]

I know that techniques are practiced in the ideal phase to give you ideas on how to handle different attacks and to teach you the rules and principles. The what if stage expands on these ideas by exposing you to other attack scenarios. I know that when we do spontanious training I never do a set technique beginning to end. I am just curious to know what peoples experiences have been when put in situations where they must defend themselves or thier loved ones. Trying to get the third persons perspective, I guess.

Kevin

 

[teej]

A system can only do so much. Can Kenpo work? It certainly can! Are you prepared? You are better prepared now than if you didn't train. Can mistakes happen while defending yourself? They sure can, but does that mean that the art you practice does not work? Hardly not!!

Take this for example. Do you train like an olympic athlete? All those hours every day, 6-7 days per week? When you watch the olympics, do you see how many mistakes are made? How many falls, the injuries, etc. Well it can happen to you doing your favorite technique out on the street.

What gets me is the ones who get into an altercation, they get hurt, injured, loose, etc., then blame the art they study as not working.

The end result always comes down to the individual student. Kenpo is a Great art. Now it comes down to the individual instructor, how he/she presents it. The drills the instructor uses to teach you. Which drills you, the individual relates to. Everybody is different and learns differently.

The biggest factor comes down to YOU. Do YOU have the will to survive? I don't know. The people reading this don't know, and you may not know until facing a life or death situation.

I do believe and have seen that proper teaching and presentation can bring about a higher level of confidence in individual students to help you function in a stressful situation.

You could post a thread asking the same question you asked for every different art that has posts on here. You will see successful posts with survival stories from each art. They all can work for the practitioner in the right situation.

Over 20 yrs ago, I was attacked in a parking lot, in my car. The art I studied at that time did not prepare me for that kind of close quarter defense, especially when there was 4 of them and my legs were under the steering wheel and I was bent over in the passenger seat. By the time they dragged me out of the car, I was a mess. Trying to kick at that point was futile.

I later found Kenpo and saw the street effectiveness of it. I have been studying it ever sense. But I have also studied crime prevention and awarenss techniques and strategies. (if you are not aware and before you know it, someone sneaks up and hits you with a bat, stabs or shoots you, it is not the art you train in's fault) You have to have an overall protection plan, and that should be part of your training too, if street defense is your concern.

Will Kenpo work for you? It sure can! Can you hear a lot of successful survival stories from Kenpo practioners? Sure you will. Will you read from those who were not successful? Probably not.

As a Kenpo instructor, I use different drills to try to bring out spontaneity in my students. Different students achieve this at different points in their training. I try to use drills to utilizing surprise attacks. (in the old days us black and brown belts would attack each other at any time. Kind of like a pink panther movie. we could be in the parking lot, dressing room or lobby, coming out of the bathroom etc., never knew when or what was coming.) But I also teach avoidness techniques and lecture awareness strategies. But with all of this, survival still comes down to the individual student and the situation they may find themselves in.

You ask will Kenpo kick in? If I throw a base ball at your head Kevin, are you going to take time to think of a technique or are you going to react, get out of the way, block, parry, catch it etc. No you won't think, you will react.

This may help you. Try not to think of Kenpo techniques as the answer to certain attack. Think of the techniques as disguised repetition, training your body how to react and move in certain ways. Teaching your body the fine motor skills, instilling in your body muscle memory. The more you practice, the more repetitions, the easier for your body to react.

When you work line drills against attacts, try not to think of which technique you will use for what attack. This will only slow you down and if your partner attacks with a different attack than you anticipated, you will get discouraged if you mess up. Instead when working with you partner, clear you mind and DO NOT think. Let your body react. In time, you will get better and better. If I throw a glass to you, will you think how to catch it, or just catch it? That is muscle memory, that is reaction, that is what you are striving for. You are not trying to remember techniques. I look at the "techniques" as a tool us instructors use to teach you.

In my opinion Kevin, you are moving in the correct direction. You are training. You are training in Kenpo. And you are asking questions. You are better prepared today to survive an attack than you were yesterday. Keep up the positive work!

Will I survive another attack? I don't know. I do know this. I am better prepared with my Kenpo training and more prepared every day I train. And let me tell you this. God better be with anyone that tries to hurt my wife or children. I may not survive, but my family will!!!!

Sorry if I rambled. Yours in Kenpo,
Teej