Star Trek + NO money = WHAT?

[Jenna]

OK so you can laugh away at me for being a trekker.. what-ever.. but I use this example as pretext for the notion of a world where money is no longer in use.. It would never work would in practice would it?

Ahh my intellectually wealthy friends.. the idea here being that in TNG etc they have fancy replicating machines to provide material needs and with disease all but eradicated etc they have pretty much everything they need .. therefore rendering traditional notions of currency somewhat worthless.. and but still I do not even think this would work either today or in some apparently enlightened future any more than the principles of Marx worked among the bourgeoisie.. I remember thinking in TNG and prolly more in DS9 why did folk work the bar in the recreational areas? and who swept the streets back on earth or who fixed the replicators when they failed or basically what was the motivation for doing all the dirty jobs.. or ANY jobs for that matter.. would YOU work for no money? for the altruism of it? ok if you are some big artist or fancy explorer but would you really go off on dangerous missions when you could be sipping Earl Grey in your comfy chair in some holo-suite full of.. well.. whatever tickles your fancy (Russell Brand for me ha!)

Anyways.. setting aside the SF.. it would not work in any human reality would it?

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna from the block (don’t be fooled by this smock that I got)

 

[Flying Crane]

Go back and watch the movie Clerks, from the mid 1990s. There is a great scene where they discuss the issue of contractors, subcontractors and other "non-military" personnel who were constructing the second Death Star in Return of the Jedi. Obviously these people would have been killed when the Death Star was destroyed and all, so they discuss all the implications of "assumed risk" on the part of the contractors, knowing they were working on something that would be a target of attack by the rebel forces, and the morality of killing these people when the Death Star was destroyed. It was pretty hilarious, and I think a little bit similar to what you are thinking about here.

 

[Rich Parsons]

OK so you can laugh away at me for being a trekker.. what-ever.. but I use this example as pretext for the notion of a world where money is no longer in use.. It would never work would in practice would it?

Ahh my intellectually wealthy friends.. the idea here being that in TNG etc they have fancy replicating machines to provide material needs and with disease all but eradicated etc they have pretty much everything they need .. therefore rendering traditional notions of currency somewhat worthless.. and but still I do not even think this would work either today or in some apparently enlightened future any more than the principles of Marx worked among the bourgeoisie.. I remember thinking in TNG and prolly more in DS9 why did folk work the bar in the recreational areas? and who swept the streets back on earth or who fixed the replicators when they failed or basically what was the motivation for doing all the dirty jobs.. or ANY jobs for that matter.. would YOU work for no money? for the altruism of it? ok if you are some big artist or fancy explorer but would you really go off on dangerous missions when you could be sipping Earl Grey in your comfy chair in some holo-suite full of.. well.. whatever tickles your fancy (Russell Brand for me ha!)

Anyways.. setting aside the SF.. it would not work in any human reality would it?

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna from the block (don’t be fooled by this smock that I got)

In DS9 there were Latnium "Chips" as well as credits at the bar in one episode. So even this universe they show how other cultures would still use it. Money that is.

Now as far as it was my understanding, in the service there was no money, but outside the service trade and support were the ways of gathering items for your use.

 

[Jenna]

In DS9 there were Latnium "Chips" as well as credits at the bar in one episode. So even this universe they show how other cultures would still use it. Money that is.

Now as far as it was my understanding, in the service there was no money, but outside the service trade and support were the ways of gathering items for your use.

Hey Rich now see you are being all pedantic on me if I did not know better I would say you were a right little trekkie also and but I am not on bout gold-pressed latinum and whatnot.. so just you sit there in your chair and answer me question boyo... credits at the bar are one thing.. trading with other worlds is another but a place where no forms of money are used would just not work outside the theory of it.. I mean imagine you were there with your replicator and your holo suite down in the basement.. would you REALLY turn up to fix the machines when they broke through some sense of loyalty to the Federation or whatever?? what I mean is would anyone who has their material wishes and whims granted .. would those people really work to keep the place running? Why bother?

ta ta for now
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Kreth]

The Trek writers were never consistent on this topic. An example: In one of the TNG eps, Tasha Yar is fighting a duel, and Worf tells her she is heavily favored in the ship's pool.

 

[evenflow1121]

I can not picture you as a trekkie, I picture you as a girl that sups up cars and puts in nitrous systems and what not and I dont want that tarnished. So I am going to ignore this whole trekkie thing, but I would still do what I do, I love my job, besides being home doing nothing gets boring rather fast dont you think, and sure going out is a lot of fun, but that too would get old after a while, part of why I love South Beach so much is because I cant hang there every day of the week, only on weekends. My point is, without work you'd prob take a lot of things in this world for granted. My two cents :idunno:

 

[stickarts]

I admit I am a big trekkie!
I went to a convention once and saw Scottie, Chekov, and Sulu! LOL!

Although I think currrency exchange will become more and more electronic, I don't see how you can get around having SOME medium for exchange of value.
Services and products aren't all perceived as having equal value and there has to be some form of compensation for products and services provided?

 

[Jenna]

The Trek writers were never consistent on this topic. An example: In one of the TNG eps, Tasha Yar is fighting a duel, and Worf tells her she is heavily favored in the ship's pool.

Yes yes yes... and no no no ... ahh mister Kreth I know I know.. I am going to instruct the clerk to strike your testimony from the records you are not answering the question my block rockin friend.. but hey you are a muso gigging round the place all the time.. I bet you would keep on jamming even if money was an anachronism, yes? Come on now I got the facts I want your opinion..

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Kreth]

but hey you are a muso gigging round the place all the time..

A wise man once said (or sang):
"...I don't rock for cancer, I rock for the groupies and the topless dancers."

I bet you would keep on jamming even if money was an anachronism, yes? Come on now I got the facts I want your opinion..

Yeah, but you can bet your *** I wouldn't be cleaning out the Enterprise's deuterium slush tanks without some cold, hard, cash in my pockets.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yeah, but you can bet your *** I wouldn't be cleaning out the Enterprise's deuterium slush tanks without some cold, hard, cash in my pockets.

"Cash" can come in many forms...

 

[Kreth]

"Cash" can come in many forms...

I'd be perfectly fine with being compensated in Orion slave girls... :lol:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hey Rich now see you are being all pedantic on me if I did not know better I would say you were a right little trekkie also and but I am not on bout gold-pressed latinum and whatnot.. so just you sit there in your chair and answer me question boyo... credits at the bar are one thing.. trading with other worlds is another but a place where no forms of money are used would just not work outside the theory of it.. I mean imagine you were there with your replicator and your holo suite down in the basement.. would you REALLY turn up to fix the machines when they broke through some sense of loyalty to the Federation or whatever?? what I mean is would anyone who has their material wishes and whims granted .. would those people really work to keep the place running? Why bother?

ta ta for now
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Well Jenna, I am a trekkie and also Star-Gate Team Member and Farsape escaped convict from the Peace Keepers and ..., well you get the point. Oh by the way I liked the first season of Doctor Who, and I am a little miffed whan I heard they replaced him. (* I missed the seaon finale *)

As to will it work on a planet side economy? When Jean Luc goes and visits his family they live in France and produce grapes for wine.

Like I said the whole no credit and the replicators and halo-sweets are only for the federation. So I think the poker games show them with money. And I think their culture would require some form of barter equalizer.

A commune works on a commune scale, where you have one black smith and such. On larger scales and with with greater technology levels, it falls apart as now if one twon has a surplus of something they must eihter attract others to them to buy it or they must travel. Either way a cost is associated with this, even if it is time and effort.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Flying Crane]

I'd be perfectly fine with being compensated in Orion slave girls... :lol:

My point exactly...

 

[Jenna]

I can not picture you as a trekkie, I picture you as a girl that sups up cars and puts in nitrous systems and what not and I dont want that tarnished. So I am going to ignore this whole trekkie thing, but I would still do what I do, I love my job, besides being home doing nothing gets boring rather fast dont you think, and sure going out is a lot of fun, but that too would get old after a while, part of why I love South Beach so much is because I cant hang there every day of the week, only on weekends. My point is, without work you'd prob take a lot of things in this world for granted. My two cents :idunno:

Hey hey hey I NEVER touch NOx that is dirty rotten stuff for silly XBox wannabee schoolboys my friend..ha! I am too subtle for that but I promise you bring your machine to me I will give him the soft touch and put a loving word in his ear and you will drive a out a different beast than you drove in.. and yes I would do that for no money if I did not NEED it.. just so long as I can see the smile on your face when you feel the extra Gs pushing you back into your wraparound and everything becomes a blur that is my payback and which sounds silly but I know what you mean bout boredom but that is the point of the holosuites to give you a little artificial reality to act out whatever whims you decide..

but anyway I will not bore you my friend.. thank you for your two cents.. I am sorry to shatter your illusions and prejudices ha! yes Star Trek woohoo ahh but there is very great intelligence there and that is what does it for me every time.. oh I pull the wings off flies and torture poor Barbie with a magnifying glass full of dunlight and all kinds of perversities, LOL.. I am a crazy person.. everywhere at full throttle.. you would not stick my pace my friend and I am your Pandora with my jar full of all kinds of misery .. so beware.. and stick safe to the idyll of South Beach, ha!

Ta Ta,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Cryozombie]

OK so you can laugh away at me for being a trekker.. what-ever.. but I use this example as pretext for the notion of a world where money is no longer in use.. It would never work would in practice would it?

In the Cyberpunk book "Diamond Age" by Neal Stephanson he touched on these ideas as well... the replicator... you need somthing you go to the box, you design it or find it premade, and poof, the replicator creates it for you out of a nano-feed.

HOWEVER.

SOMEONE owns that Nanofeed, the way the electric company owns the electric feed, and the cable company owns the cable feed, and you still pay for what you replicate to cover the cost of the feed... THAT seems more realistic than it being free... SOMEONE will own the infrastructure and you WILL pay.

 

[Jenna]

Well Jenna, I am a trekkie and also Star-Gate Team Member and Farsape escaped convict from the Peace Keepers and ..., well you get the point. Oh by the way I liked the first season of Doctor Who, and I am a little miffed whan I heard they replaced him. (* I missed the seaon finale *)

As to will it work on a planet side economy? When Jean Luc goes and visits his family they live in France and produce grapes for wine.

Like I said the whole no credit and the replicators and halo-sweets are only for the federation. So I think the poker games show them with money. And I think their culture would require some form of barter equalizer.

A commune works on a commune scale, where you have one black smith and such. On larger scales and with with greater technology levels, it falls apart as now if one twon has a surplus of something they must eihter attract others to them to buy it or they must travel. Either way a cost is associated with this, even if it is time and effort.

Does that answer your question?

Well money was always cited as something that had been relinquished COMPLETELY as unnecessary and outmoded.. and to me in fact there was a little snobbery in it as though this concept and the WHOLE concept of Trek was a reflection of Rodenberry's dissatisfaction with everything happening about him.. just my 0.02.. btw I am NOT a fan of ol Gene at all but I appreciate that is maybe because I was not a part of that generation 1960s 1970s whatever.. but I find TOS a little um.. basic.. no offence. I was happier once his legacy faded..

But I think the idea is nice (as it was with Marx) whereby the struggle to acquire wealth is detrimental to balance and leads to inequalities poverty even (as we see with regularity nowadays).. If technology usurps the need for currency that is wonderful but still SOMEONE has to work at loser jobs as mister Kreth says cleaning out toxic matter whatever and I still wonder WHY would someone do that.. what is the motivation?

Anyways.. Oh if you are talking bout Chris Eccleston as the Doctor.. well yes you are more than a LITTLE behind my friend but that is ok.. David Tennant is easily the match for our Chris.. just as quirky.. oh yeah everyone from England is just like the Doctor dontcha know.. ha! anyways dont be miffed the latest series is a good one and as I was saying to my main man on here.. for the next one 2007 theres even a lovely new sidekick too which you can check out on the BBC site ifyou are bothered..

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Rich Parsons]

Well money was always cited as something that had been relinquished COMPLETELY as unnecessary and outmoded.. and to me in fact there was a little snobbery in it as though this concept and the WHOLE concept of Trek was a reflection of Rodenberry's dissatisfaction with everything happening about him.. just my 0.02.. btw I am NOT a fan of ol Gene at all but I appreciate that is maybe because I was not a part of that generation 1960s 1970s whatever.. but I find TOS a little um.. basic.. no offence. I was happier once his legacy faded..

But I think the idea is nice (as it was with Marx) whereby the struggle to acquire wealth is detrimental to balance and leads to inequalities poverty even (as we see with regularity nowadays).. If technology usurps the need for currency that is wonderful but still SOMEONE has to work at loser jobs as mister Kreth says cleaning out toxic matter whatever and I still wonder WHY would someone do that.. what is the motivation?

Anyways.. Oh if you are talking bout Chris Eccleston as the Doctor.. well yes you are more than a LITTLE behind my friend but that is ok.. David Tennant is easily the match for our Chris.. just as quirky.. oh yeah everyone from England is just like the Doctor dontcha know.. ha! anyways dont be miffed the latest series is a good one and as I was saying to my main man on here.. for the next one 2007 theres even a lovely new sidekick too which you can check out on the BBC site ifyou are bothered..

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

There will always be those that do not conform to a society. Assign them the task of cleaning out the toxic matter. Or offer College credit and some Ensign wanne-be will take it out study it and try to come up with a way to use it.

 

[Swordlady]

Okay...this is my understanding on how the monetary system (or more accurately, lack of it) worked. Earth (and I'm guessing the entire Federation) was basically a utopian society, with no more poor people or socio-economic classes. Money or any kind of barter system were not needed within the confines of the Federation. However, members of the Federation often dealt with outsiders, which made the use of credits necessary. There are a few references to Federation credits, but I can only think of one example at the moment. During the first episode of TNG ("Encounter at Farpoint), Dr. Crusher paid for a scarf with credits. The credit system was never adequately explained in TNG and DS9 (I know this from watching every single episode of those two series - lol). Although...Captain Picard *did* mention in "First Contact" that Starfleet personnel don't get paid.

DS9 established that non-members of the Federation had a universal currency system: Gold-pressed latinum in denominations of slips, strips, and bars. The Ferengi, Bajorans, and other races I can't think of at the moment used latinum in their transactions. Again, it wasn't adequately explained how the Federation fit in within that currency system.

My guess: The Federation had something like an endless bank of credits, which they freely doled to its members whenever they needed to "buy" something from a non-Federation world. People's basic needs were met by replicators, and anything extra was just handed to them. This is just my own hypothesis. *shrug* I'll have to think about it a little more...

 

[MRE]

Maybe the dirty jobs are done by criminals. Maybe robbery is punished by 5 years of sweeping streets, or assault is punishable by 20 years of cleaning toxic waste. And for murder, you would have to be the unknown ensign that gets beamed down to the scary alien planet with a team consisting of stars of the show - A death sentence for sure.

You start some entertaining threads Jenna. Have fun!

 

[MRE]

Maybe the dirty jobs are done by criminals. Maybe robbery is punished by 5 years of sweeping streets, or assault is punishable by 20 years of cleaning toxic waste. And for murder, you would have to be the unknown ensign that gets beamed down to the scary alien planet with a team consisting of stars of the show - A death sentence for sure.

You start some entertaining threads Jenna. Have fun!