Sports fighters in self defence

[Kenpoguy123]

Now firstly this isn't one of those oh boxers/kick boxers / mma fighters can't fight in the street. It's simply me stating a point I feel is true. As with any style it depends on the practitioner for example Muhammad Ali wouldn't do as well in a street fight he even said as much mainly because his style is footwork and jabs not huge power shots and has his hands down and taunts. But a boxer like mike Tyson would absolutely be able to fight in the street he relies on his power and head movement.

Similar in mma for example tuf 10 rampage and rashad Evans. They constantly got into arguments that could've resulted in a fight. But the majority of time they were in close environments like a small corridor. So if they threw down rampage would be at advantage because his style is power and rashads was footwork speed and wrestling. But in the ring rashad beat rampage easily because of those factors

So like every other style it depends on the practitioner now that's not me saying Ali and Evans couldn't fight in the street as Im sure they'd change their style for it but based on their ring fighting styles is what I'm discussing.

 

[MAfreak]

sure training combat sports will give advantages in a self defense situation.
but there are many things that could bring the sportsman in danger like striking with fists to the head and break the hand because he is familiarised with wearing gloves. or pinning an opponent on the ground not considering that, depending on the position, he might easily get eye-poked, balls-grabbed or such which doesn't happen in his sport since it's just not allowed there.

 

[Tez3]

'Sports' fighter are not idiots, they can think you know, they know very well that there's rules in competition and no rules outside competition. Many fighters I know compete in different competitions with different rules so they are more than competent at thinking as they fight so in a self defence situation they know they don't have a ref or rules. Just because a technique is illegal in a competition it doesn't mean that a fighter doesn't know how to do it. I wish people would stop assuming those who fight competitively are mindless.

 

[MAfreak]

not sure what you mean but i mean that the fighter for example on the ground can get eye poked or whatever. how often i thought pinned "wow in self-defense it would be easy to hurt you and get you off of me".
and for example mike tyson once broke his fist when punching a rival in the street. so understand what someone wrote please before getting upset.

 

[Tez3]

not sure what you mean but i mean that the fighter for example on the ground can get eye poked or whatever. how often i thought pinned "wow in self-defense it would be easy to hurt you and get you off of me".
and for example mike tyson once broke his fist when punching a rival in the street. so understand what someone wrote please before getting upset.

Yes, a fighter on the ground in a competition can get her eye poked but if it were a self defence situation the fighter would have handled it differently knowing that there are no rules.
I am not upset so please don't place emotions on to me that I don't feel. I understand very well, despite the odd syntax what is being said. I am pointing out in reply that a fighter's mind-set will depend on the situation they find themselves in, don't assume a fighter is always going to fight as if they were competing and they have a ref, the simple fact is fighters can adapt easily to different situations. Thinking a fighter always plays by the rules would be a very dangerous assumption to make.
Tyson is simply a thug.

 

[Hanzou]

not sure what you mean but i mean that the fighter for example on the ground can get eye poked or whatever. how often i thought pinned "wow in self-defense it would be easy to hurt you and get you off of me".
and for example mike tyson once broke his fist when punching a rival in the street. so understand what someone wrote please before getting upset.

FYI: Attempting to poke someone in the eye while they're in a dominant position is a bad idea.

 

[MAfreak]

well you are generalizing sports-fighters (like you thought i do). i was talking of habits, not of stupidity.
every individual and every fight is different but especially in a frightening self defense situation many people could act like they are familiarised and might don't think a lot about it.
that tyson is a thug or not doesn't matter here. its an example that boxers, who normaly don't learn palm strikes and such and are familiarised using fists to the head can get hurt in a street fight.

 

[MAfreak]

FYI: Attempting to poke someone in the eye while they're in a dominant position is a bad idea.

i guess when pushing someone your thumb into the eyehole he will let go and don't stay there and punch the heck out of you after. when the attempt misses, yeah, thats bad, but somehow you must defend yourself, even when you don't know grappling escapes, right? or should one then just lie there and get beat up or stabbed or whatever?

 

[Hanzou]

i guess when pushing someone your thumb into the eyehole he will let go and don't stay there and punch the heck out of you after. when the attempt misses, yeah, thats bad, but somehow you must defend yourself, even when you don't know grappling escapes, right? or should one then just lie there and get beat up or stabbed or whatever?

Or you should learn grappling escapes. Going for eye pokes is like giving someone a free joint lock, or an opening to turn your face into hamburger depending on what position you're in.

 

[MAfreak]

Or you should learn grappling escapes. Going for eye pokes is like giving someone a free joint lock, or an opening to turn your face into hamburger depending on what position you're in.

please no "i'm the knowledgebase superman" discussion. i have the luck to have learned escapes that work very well but you can't expect that from thugs, street fighters, robbers etc.

 

[Tez3]

well you are generalizing sports-fighters (like you thought i do). i was talking of habits, not of stupidity.
every individual and every fight is different but especially in a frightening self defense situation many people could act like they are familiarised and might don't think a lot about it.
that tyson is a thug or not doesn't matter here. its an example that boxers, who normaly don't learn palm strikes and such and are familiarised using fists to the head can get hurt in a street fight.

i guess when pushing someone your thumb into the eyehole he will let go and don't stay there and punch the heck out of you after. when the attempt misses, yeah, thats bad, but somehow you must defend yourself, even when you don't know grappling escapes, right? or should one then just lie there and get beat up or stabbed or whatever?

What on earth is someone who is 'familiarised'? For people used to fighting having to defend yourself comes as far less of a shock than for many. Boxers don't punch to the head, they punch to the jaw/chin and the centre of the face, it would be a stupid boxer who even with gloves on who punched someone's head.
The second post is just baffling I'm afraid, I have no idea what you mean.

 

[Tez3]

please no "i'm the knowledgebase superman" discussion. i have the luck to have learned escapes that work very well but you can't expect that from thugs, street fighters, robbers etc.

???

 

[marques]

To remember me (us?) that self-defence is not combat sports there is Rory Miller (among others), by is work experience and teachings.
He really doesn't look an MMA fighter. And yet he survived many unnegotiated, unexpected and unpredictable threats. And no height classes. Weapons can happen occasionally...
Of course, combat sports may help.
But also may harm by bad habits (already mentioned), due to overconfidence (the worse)...

PS: Yeah, and self-defence is not street fight...

 

[Bill Mattocks]

This isn't a very entertaining thread. It actually does kind of seem like one of those 'sports fighters can't fight in the street' threads. I think it's been discussed and/or argued to death, and most reasonable sorts conclude that 'it depends'. And I agree. It depends. Moving on...

 

[MAfreak]

???

come on. trying to hit the jaw of a moving target can lead to punching the skull. also punching the nose can lead to this.
my articulation might suck since english isn't my native language.
what i meant in my last post is that very often in forums when someone posts his opinion some guys come around and must make someone look like a total idiot, sometimes because not understanding what he said.
if you are the grappler in a street fight and pinning the street fighter/attacker/robber/whatever (which alone isn't a good idea in self-defense) who might think its a good idea to press his thumb into your eye, you might have a problem. that was the statement.

 

[Tez3]

come on. trying to hit the jaw of a moving target can lead to punching the skull. also punching the nose can lead to this.
my articulation might suck since english isn't my native language.
what i meant in my last post is that very often in forums when someone posts his opinion some guys come around and must make someone look like a total idiot, sometimes because not understanding what he said.
if you are the grappler in a street fight and pinning the street fighter/attacker/robber/whatever (which alone isn't a good idea in self-defense) who might think its a good idea to press his thumb into your eye, you might have a problem. that was the statement.

Now, most fighters can actually hit the jaw of a moving target because that's what they train to do. No one expects someone to stand still and be hit however by sparring one learns to gauge where the head is going, in fact one can make the head go that way. for example one can throw several punches at the face, knowing your opponent is going to put their hands up ( whether a trained fighter or not) so then one can strike to the liver. these are things that fighters who fight in competitions learn to do, anticipate where the opponent/attacker is going, how to make that opponent/attacker go the way you want and how to take advantage of unexpected moves if they happen. It's what training does, it prepares you to fight regardless of whether there's rules or not.

Grapplers rarely take people down 'in the street' but use their skills to avoid being taken down and to get up quickly if they are taken to the ground. Just because someone is a grappler doesn't mean they are confined to just being on the ground and do nothing else, it stands to reason that if they can grapple they can also defend against grappling when needed.

Now, all of the above can apply equally to someone who trains for self defence or to be honest even someone who doesn't train martial arts at all. There is no quantifiable ideal for surviving an attack, as others have said...it depends.

 

[drop bear]

Now firstly this isn't one of those oh boxers/kick boxers / mma fighters can't fight in the street. It's simply me stating a point I feel is true. As with any style it depends on the practitioner for example Muhammad Ali wouldn't do as well in a street fight he even said as much mainly because his style is footwork and jabs not huge power shots and has his hands down and taunts. But a boxer like mike Tyson would absolutely be able to fight in the street he relies on his power and head movement.

Similar in mma for example tuf 10 rampage and rashad Evans. They constantly got into arguments that could've resulted in a fight. But the majority of time they were in close environments like a small corridor. So if they threw down rampage would be at advantage because his style is power and rashads was footwork speed and wrestling. But in the ring rashad beat rampage easily because of those factors

So like every other style it depends on the practitioner now that's not me saying Ali and Evans couldn't fight in the street as Im sure they'd change their style for it but based on their ring fighting styles is what I'm discussing.

What if they fight somewhere with a bit of room. Like a street?

I am not sure why street fight equals nose to nose.

There is a reason why sports fighters dont just wade in.

 

[MAfreak]

Tez3 logially they train it but nothing gives a 100% guarantee. see my mike tyson example.
i think i've explained my examples enough (3 times each?) and they are comprehensible.

 

[Tez3]

Tez3 logially they train it but nothing gives a 100% guarantee. see my mike tyson example.
i think i've explained my examples enough (3 times each?) and they are comprehensible.

They may be comprehensible but they are also erroneous in that you are saying that when you see fighters in a competition you assume that they cannot fight/defend themselves when attacked purely because they are competitive fighters. Not so as I have explained.

 

[MAfreak]

nope i wrote they MIGHT be. see my mike tyson example.
i personally think that for example kickboxers as sport fighters are way better prepared for self defense than most karateka as self defense trainees are.