Spontaneous "Volt" combustion...three weeks later...

[billc]

Here is a possible reason to not buy the Chevy Volt, the possibility of fire, three weeks after a crash...

http://biggovernment.com/smotley/2011/11/15/powering-inferno-chevy-volt-and-gm-going-down-in-flames-literally/

Oh, and another thing – it appears

Volts may be bursting into flames.
Specifically the plug-in charger for the Volt’s battery. There were in April two Volt charcoal briquets. GM said it wasn’t responsible. And Volt proponents argued that we should wait to hear from expertsbefore jumping to conclusions.
Fair enough.
Ok – a third Volt just recently immolated. During the requested expert testing – while it was stored in a garage at a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) testing center.
And a fourth Volt just went up in flames in the garage of a Mooresville, North Carolina home. Which led the local power company to issue a warning:
Duke Energy officials want anyone who has a charging station to stop using it until they know the devices are safe.
Again, we don’t yet know for sure that the Volt charging stations are to blame. It may (also) be the batteries.
As GM themselves inadvertently indicated.
General Motors believes the (NHTSA) fire occurred because NHTSA did not drain the energy from the Volt’s battery following the (test) crash, which is a safety step the automaker recommends, GM spokesman Rob Peterson said.
So emergency personnel, arriving upon the scene of accidents involving a Volt, must add to their list of responsibilities – draining the stupid electric car batteries?
Yes.
The fire’s cause – the battery puncture — led to questions about whether other automakersrequire batteries to be discharged of their energy following major crashes, the NHTSA official said. In addition, regulators are exploring protocols for who would do that – firefighters who respond first, for instance – and how quickly should they do it.

So, to highlight the last little bit...

So emergency personnel, arriving upon the scene of accidents involving a Volt, must add to their list of responsibilities – draining the stupid electric car batteries?
Yes.
The fire’s cause – the battery puncture — led to questions about whether other automakersrequire batteries to be discharged of their energy following major crashes, the NHTSA official said. In addition, regulators are exploring protocols for who would do that – firefighters who respond first, for instance – and how quickly should they do it.

 

[billc]

Where is millionaire activist Ralph Nader when you need him?

 

[JohnEdward]

Hell where's the government? Don't they oversee these things? Rick Perry, you missed this one in your speech!

 

[granfire]

Hell where's the government? Don't they oversee these things? Rick Perry, you missed this one in your speech!

He probably forgot.

But then again, billi has an agenda....he no like GM....among a lot of other things.

 

[billc]

Hmmm...yes, my agenda is the problem, not the cars that violently burst into flames up to three weeks after the battery is punctured by metal. This of course means that any little fender bender becomes a major concern and anyone owning a Volt now has to worry about increased insurance payments not only on their car but on their homeowners insurance since putting it in a garage after an accident is now a threat to your home. Yes...I can see where my agenda is the real problem here.

 

[Steve]

While I'm not a fan of the Volt in particular, this seems like a hatchet job, that the situation was misrepresented, it's not a crisis and that the government agencies did exactly what they should have to keep people as safe as possible.

The bottom line is this: that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says that "ased on the available data, N.H.T.S.A. does not believe the Volt or other electric vehicles are at a greater risk of fire than gasoline-powered vehicle"; indeed, had the administration followed procedures to drain the battery of its charge following the crash test, the fire probably wouldn't have happened at all.

One good thing that is coming from this incident is increased transparency and communication, and further safety measures. It's wonderful that GM has a protocol to drain damaged batteries of their charge--but they hadn't yet trained other people to do so. The company now has plans to train tow truck drivers, body shops, and salvage yards in EV safety, so that events like the one that happened in the NHTSA facility won't befall others.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/helloworld/27344/

 

[Rich Parsons]

Yes I work for GM.

The risk for Lithium Batteries is there for all makes and manufacturers.
GM has turned down suppliers that are building product now because they do not meet the crash and puncture testing to not catch on fire.

REPEAT: GM dropped suppliers that other manufacturers are using that are not up to our safety standards.

If you read the on hatchet job, it talked about NHTSA saying that there is no more risk with this 5 Star Crash vehicle then any other 5 Star Crash vehicle for catching fire including those with gasolene.



Now if you do not like GM that is ok. But how come you and those who are against the big corps are after GM that paid back the loans it did not trade for stock, and then when it went public the break even point was just over $23 a share and it sold for mroe than that. Yes on what the Government sold they made a profit. Yet as they have not sold it all only half their investment they still cannot claim a full profit as they are still invested.

So the question is: Chrysler got money as well. The Fed Gov walks away from all investment into Chrysler. The press barely covered it. No one here posted or talked about it. Hmmmm?


Also what about the Toyota issues of quality and unsafe vehicles. I do not see the same people who disparage GM also going after them and that they as a company put a price tag on your life. Not only as a customer but as someone on teh street that might get hit from a run away vehicle. They saved lots of money. They looked good, but killed people. Some people went to prison for vehicular homicide. Two I read about were released.

Toyota also gets loans from Japan. Japan also puts 100% tarriff on all imports to protect domestics(Japanese) manufacturers. They also require by law that all cars older than 5 years be collected and sent overseas.

If we had those same benefits here, I wonder if there would be any issues with profitablity at all. I would think not.


So why all the GM Bashing and not the others? I am really curious. Or are you just going to ignore this request and pretend to not see it. Like you have in the past.

 

[jks9199]

OK, let's think this through for a minute. You're in a crash. The battery -- a fairly complex balance of chemistry and engineering with inherent potentials for explosion -- gets punctured, changing the balances in it. And, some time later, it fails catastrophically. Not exactly earth shattering. By the way -- a lead/acid car battery can explode in a number of circumstances, including if it gets damaged in a crash.

I'm not sure where I stand on the Volt over all; I simply haven't looked into it enough because the little I have says that the current electric cars don't fit my needs. Nor do hybrids. (By the way, I think if anyone manages to make a hybrid police car, without losing all the trunk space we need, and still able to power the radios and computers -- I think there's a great market. We burn a lot of gas going nowhere...) But I think that one day soon, we will all be looking hard at buying electric...

 

[Carol]

(By the way, I think if anyone manages to make a hybrid police car, without losing all the trunk space we need, and still able to power the radios and computers -- I think there's a great market. We burn a lot of gas going nowhere...)

They have actually! I've seen cruisers up in the north country I've seen police cars that are Hybrid Ford Escapes.

 

[ballen0351]

So why all the GM Bashing and not the others? I am really curious. Or are you just going to ignore this request and pretend to not see it. Like you have in the past.

Umm because they took a bail out and should have gone belly up.

 

[jks9199]

They have actually! I've seen cruisers up in the north country I've seen police cars that are Hybrid Ford Escapes.

I'm skeptical of any use of CURRENT hybrids for more than meter maids and detectives, maybe limited patrol use. Except for a few specialty cars -- the performance isn't there yet, as far as I know (I admit I haven't looked up the details yet). It's like when municipalities decided to go "green" and forced CNG outfitted cruisers on several departments that I know of. (Yeah, mine was one.) But the idea of being able to creep neighborhoods on electric, and not sucking as much exhaust for 12 hours a day... I kind of like that idea.

 

[ballen0351]

I'm skeptical of any use of CURRENT hybrids for more than meter maids and detectives, maybe limited patrol use. Except for a few specialty cars -- the performance isn't there yet, as far as I know (I admit I haven't looked up the details yet). It's like when municipalities decided to go "green" and forced CNG outfitted cruisers on several departments that I know of. (Yeah, mine was one.) But the idea of being able to creep neighborhoods on electric, and not sucking as much exhaust for 12 hours a day... I kind of like that idea.

The silence of the battery power would be a great tool to sneak up on people. I just dont know about the power and speed factor of hybrids.

 

[Carol]

I'm skeptical of any use of CURRENT hybrids for more than meter maids and detectives, maybe limited patrol use. Except for a few specialty cars -- the performance isn't there yet, as far as I know (I admit I haven't looked up the details yet). It's like when municipalities decided to go "green" and forced CNG outfitted cruisers on several departments that I know of. (Yeah, mine was one.) But the idea of being able to creep neighborhoods on electric, and not sucking as much exhaust for 12 hours a day... I kind of like that idea.

Well....it performs well enough to climb an unplowed gravel road in winter conditions to, you know, encourage (say) hikers and (say) random photographers and the like to get down from the height-of-land before a quick-moving storm sets in.

Or something like that.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Umm because they took a bail out and should have gone belly up.

Search for my name and Bail out and not getting money and you will see me posting the same thing.

Yet, I see nothing against Chrysler here.

Chrysler borrowed money. GM borrowed money.

Fed Gov Wrote Chrysler off. Walked away from all investments. GM Paid back loans and sold stock at a profit for the Fed Gov.

How is this the same and how is a GM only issue?

I still see a bias. I still see an issue.

I am still looking for a real answer.

Thanks

 

[Rich Parsons]

OK, let's think this through for a minute. You're in a crash. The battery -- a fairly complex balance of chemistry and engineering with inherent potentials for explosion -- gets punctured, changing the balances in it. And, some time later, it fails catastrophically. Not exactly earth shattering. By the way -- a lead/acid car battery can explode in a number of circumstances, including if it gets damaged in a crash.

I'm not sure where I stand on the Volt over all; I simply haven't looked into it enough because the little I have says that the current electric cars don't fit my needs. Nor do hybrids. (By the way, I think if anyone manages to make a hybrid police car, without losing all the trunk space we need, and still able to power the radios and computers -- I think there's a great market. We burn a lot of gas going nowhere...) But I think that one day soon, we will all be looking hard at buying electric...

I'm skeptical of any use of CURRENT hybrids for more than meter maids and detectives, maybe limited patrol use. Except for a few specialty cars -- the performance isn't there yet, as far as I know (I admit I haven't looked up the details yet). It's like when municipalities decided to go "green" and forced CNG outfitted cruisers on several departments that I know of. (Yeah, mine was one.) But the idea of being able to creep neighborhoods on electric, and not sucking as much exhaust for 12 hours a day... I kind of like that idea.

JKS,

Chevy Tahoe has a Hybrid.

Performance:
Best in class fuel economy
I saw a 4x4 (independant - not sure which show it was) test where they put a regular Tahoe and the hybrid barried in the mud and which one worked better. The Electric did better as it was more even torque across the wheels and to the ground.

I believe Towing is less, but I have not seen a towing police vehicle yet.

If you are talking an Interceptor, and chasing down high speeds, then yes that is still in the works. The problem is as always, investment versus return. i.e. how many will you actullay sell?


Thanks

 

[ballen0351]

Search for my name and Bail out and not getting money and you will see me posting the same thing.

Yet, I see nothing against Chrysler here.

Chrysler borrowed money. GM borrowed money.

Fed Gov Wrote Chrysler off. Walked away from all investments. GM Paid back loans and sold stock at a profit for the Fed Gov.

How is this the same and how is a GM only issue?

I still see a bias. I still see an issue.

I am still looking for a real answer.

Thanks

I dont disagree with you but you asked why people are picking on GM and thats why.
Why they are not picking on Chrysler I cant answer that maybe because other then the Jeep line Chrysler sucks or maybe its because GM is way bigger then Chrysler and is the face for the auto bail out. Maybe its because GM got more money then Chrysler. Maybe its because some still think GM didnt pay back its loan as they claim. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOaS2SymjQ4&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[billc]

Well, there is this little bit in the news...

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/11/headline_of_the_day_you_wont_see_anywhere_gm_bailout_costs_skyrocket.html

The Treasury Department dramatically boosted its estimate of losses from its $85 billion auto industry bailout by more than $9 billion in the face of General Motors Co.'s steep stock decline.
In its monthly report to Congress, the Treasury Department now says it expects to lose $23.6 billion, up from its previous estimate of $14.33 billion.
The Treasury now pegs the cost of the bailout of GM, Chrysler Group LLC and the [COLOR=#009900 !important]auto finance[/COLOR] companies at $79.6 billion. It no longer includes $5 billion it set aside to guarantee payments to auto suppliers in 2009.
The big increase is a reflection of the sharp decline in the value of GM's share price.
The current estimate of losses is based on GM's Sept. 30 closing price of $20.18, down one-third over the previous quarterly price.
GM's stock closed Monday at $22.99, up 2 percent. The government won't reassess the estimate of the costs until Dec. 30.
The government has recovered $23.2 billion of its $49.5 billion GM bailout, and cut its stake in the company from 61 percent to 26.5 percent. But it has been forced to put on hold the sale of its remaining 500 million shares of stock.
The new estimate also hikes the overall cost of the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program costs to taxpayers. TARP is the emergency program approved by Congress in late 2008 at the height of the financial crisis.
​

I don't care of GM and Chrysler pay back every penny - which they won't. The bailout should not have gone through. The auto makers should have been allowed to go the normal bankruptcy route instead of the cram down measures taken by the federal government that rewarded slothful unions at the expense of investors who lost everything.

Read more: [URL]http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/11/headline_of_the_day_you_wont_see_anywhere_gm_bailout_costs_skyrocket.html#ixzz1e09FBDGQ[/URL]

 

[jks9199]

JKS,

Chevy Tahoe has a Hybrid.

Performance:
Best in class fuel economy
I saw a 4x4 (independant - not sure which show it was) test where they put a regular Tahoe and the hybrid barried in the mud and which one worked better. The Electric did better as it was more even torque across the wheels and to the ground.

I believe Towing is less, but I have not seen a towing police vehicle yet.

If you are talking an Interceptor, and chasing down high speeds, then yes that is still in the works. The problem is as always, investment versus return. i.e. how many will you actullay sell?


Thanks

Some of the areas that I'm not sure of the performance include response driving (not pursuit, since most agencies in my area prohibit pursuits in truck chassis vehicles due to stability concerns), space since I don't know how much space the batteries suck up, and whether they can handle the electrical load without ending up offsetting the fuel savings or killing the batteries. I absolutely think it's coming. I just literally don't know that it's there yet -- though Carol's mention of the agency using a Ford Escape suggests that at least some of those areas are OK. But, it looks like that is literally a couple of agencies using hybrids in a patrol capacity.

 

[ballen0351]

Some of the areas that I'm not sure of the performance include response driving (not pursuit, since most agencies in my area prohibit pursuits in truck chassis vehicles due to stability concerns), space since I don't know how much space the batteries suck up, and whether they can handle the electrical load without ending up offsetting the fuel savings or killing the batteries. I absolutely think it's coming. I just literally don't know that it's there yet -- though Carol's mention of the agency using a Ford Escape suggests that at least some of those areas are OK. But, it looks like that is literally a couple of agencies using hybrids in a patrol capacity.

Also Cost prob being the biggest factor for departments the Hybrid is alot more expensive then a base model Tahoe used for police package.

 

[jks9199]

Also Cost prob being the biggest factor for departments the Hybrid is alot more expensive then a base model Tahoe used for police package.

And I don't think the hybrids are on the state purchase plan, which we generally buy off of.