Southern Dragon elements in wing chun

Jens

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Oily Daragon said “Wing Chun's grappling potential is in the process of being completely forgotten, because people are learning a distant derivative of Yongchuan Quan, not the underlying Snake, Crane, and Dragon styles at its core, each of which could take up a whole thread by themselves.”

I found what you mentioned above interesting, can you please elaborate more on what you presume “wing chun’s grappling potential” is?


Oily Daragon said “A lot of the twisting coiling in Wing Chun is from Dragon style. Dragon is sort of the "hidden" part of Wing Chun compared to the Snake and Crane.”

Can you also please elaborate more on what you meant by “Dragon is sort of the "hidden" part of Wing Chun” ?
 

geezer

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There's a lot of debate among Chinese practitioners and martial arts researchers about the historical origins of Wing Chun beyond the old myths and folklore.

What was the role of Fukien Crane Boxing? How much of a role did Hakka boxing systems like Southern Mantis, Southern Dragon and Bak Mei play? And Snake style? If so, how did the Cantonese speakers learn form the Hakka when these groups shared much mistrust?

And, was there contact with other systems in Southeast Asia brought in through trade along the "Silk Road" or boats along the Pearl River? What about the role of revolutionaries and political dissidents leading up to and during the Taiping Rebellion? And what about contact with 19th Century Western bare-knuckle boxers?

There are so many possibilities. I'm fascinated to hear what knowledgeable people have to contribute ...but distrustful of anyone that thinks they know the whole story! ;)
 

Oily Dragon

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Oily Daragon said “Wing Chun's grappling potential is in the process of being completely forgotten, because people are learning a distant derivative of Yongchuan Quan, not the underlying Snake, Crane, and Dragon styles at its core, each of which could take up a whole thread by themselves.”

I found what you mentioned above interesting, can you please elaborate more on what you presume “wing chun’s grappling potential” is?


Oily Daragon said “A lot of the twisting coiling in Wing Chun is from Dragon style. Dragon is sort of the "hidden" part of Wing Chun compared to the Snake and Crane.”

Can you also please elaborate more on what you meant by “Dragon is sort of the "hidden" part of Wing Chun” ?
Ok.

Let's start here.

 

Xue Sheng

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Should add, and this is all I will have on this topic
咏春拳 in Cantonese is Wing Chun Keun
咏春拳 in Mandarin is Yǒng chūn quán
So your first obvious difference is you are dealing with 2 different dialects; Cantonese vs Mandarin.

Other than that I have seen a Northern version of Wing Chun (Yǒng chūn quán) that is rather different than the Ip Man version, but I only saw Siu Lum Tao. Also note, there is a Ip Man Wing Chun school in Beijing (North)
 

wckf92

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Other than that I have seen a Northern version of Wing Chun (Yǒng chūn quán) that is rather different than the Ip Man version, but I only saw Siu Lum Tao.

Interesting. Do you have any more info on the northern version? Would like to learn more about it.
Thanks!
 

Xue Sheng

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Interesting. Do you have any more info on the northern version? Would like to learn more about it.
Thanks!

There is a VCD out there, it was sent to me by my inlaws in Beijing and it is all in MAndarin. I will see if I can locate it and give you the name of the guy who is demonstrating it.
 

wckf92

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There is a VCD out there, it was sent to me by my inlaws in Beijing and it is all in MAndarin. I will see if I can locate it and give you the name of the guy who is demonstrating it.

That would be great! Thank you!
 

geezer

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Should add, and this is all I will have on this topic
咏春拳 in Cantonese is Wing Chun Keun
咏春拳 in Mandarin is Yǒng chūn quán
So your first obvious difference is you are dealing with 2 different dialects; Cantonese vs Mandarin.

Other than that I have seen a Northern version of Wing Chun (Yǒng chūn quán) that is rather different than the Ip Man version, but I only saw Siu Lum Tao. Also note, there is a Ip Man Wing Chun school in Beijing (North)
Wang Zhi Peng, a student of Wong Shun Leung who was an important student of Yip Man, teaches in Beijing last I heard.

Hey- random thought: What two famous personages were known as "The Little Dragon" in their native tongues?

Answer to follow....
 

Xue Sheng

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Wang Zhi Peng, a student of Wong Shun Leung who was an important student of Yip Man, teaches in Beijing last I heard.

Hey- random thought: What two famous personages were known as "The Little Dragon" in their native tongues?

Answer to follow....

Yeah that's the guy.

Wasn't one of them Lee Jun fan?
 

geezer

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Yeah that's the guy.

Wasn't one of them Lee Jun fan?
Well see for yourself. Here are their pictures:

Little Dragon 1
1642544390609.png


Little Dragon 2:

1642544630602.png
 

geezer

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Ah, Vlad the Impaler. Or was that just his porn star name?
Vlad's dad was honored as a member of the "Order of the Dragon" and given the title of "Dracul" or dragon. Little Vlad III, later known as "the Impaler", took on the name "Draculya" that is "little dragon", or "Dragon Jr". I read that in Romania he's something of a national hero for his resistance against the Ottoman Turks.
 

Oily Dragon

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I have a lot more to add. For once.

Currently prepping a large fish.
 

Oily Dragon

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The Ten Killing Hands.

Tiger, Crane, Dragon. Five Element Fist stuff.

The Dragon elements here highlight some common southern stuff. Wing Chun students might find this interesting.

1642571488764.png
 

Oily Dragon

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Should add, and this is all I will have on this topic
咏春拳 in Cantonese is Wing Chun Keun
咏春拳 in Mandarin is Yǒng chūn quán
So your first obvious difference is you are dealing with 2 different dialects; Cantonese vs Mandarin.

Other than that I have seen a Northern version of Wing Chun (Yǒng chūn quán) that is rather different than the Ip Man version, but I only saw Siu Lum Tao. Also note, there is a Ip Man Wing Chun school in Beijing (North)

The whole North/South thing is the problem.

Does anyone here really believe the Shaolin Temple believed a single river separated anything?

Southern White Crane Technique:

1642571993108.png
 

Oily Dragon

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Speaking of Plum Flower Fist techniques, another important Southern Dragon element.

The roar. rawr.

 

Eric_H

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Oily Daragon said “A lot of the twisting coiling in Wing Chun is from Dragon style. Dragon is sort of the "hidden" part of Wing Chun compared to the Snake and Crane.”

It's possible, but not super likely. Wing Chun does have a Dragon Element/Attitude to it, heck in Hung Fa Yi our Siu Nim Tao has a dragon claw and our Kiu Sao has dragon shape bridging. Just because the Dragon Element is there though, it doesn't mean it's a direct descendant of Dragon Style.

I didn't see much of Dragon attitude in YM's wing chun. Potentially due to the extra simplification of that style by Leung Jan.
 
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