Southern Baptist leader, "no yoga for Christians"
- Thread starter punisher73
- Start date
It sounds as if the pastor has no problem with christians performing the stretches and exercises as long as the chanting and religious aspects of Yoga aren't practiced. That's fair. I'm a christian and I have taken classes of this "westernized" version of Yoga. I see nothing wrong with it. But I would have a conflict with my christian beliefs if the instructors started introducing the chants, because they have their origins in a conflicting religion.
We all must decide where we draw the line.
We all must decide where we draw the line.
I can see where he's coming from if these chants are used as some are prayers to other gods but I'd have no problem reciting some of the others such as the one for enlightenment or peace.
http://yogaholidays.net/magazine/mantras.htm
From what my friend told me using the Wii Yoga can cause you to utter a great many exclaimations to deities, usually the day after when you discover muscles you didn't know you had!
http://yogaholidays.net/magazine/mantras.htm
From what my friend told me using the Wii Yoga can cause you to utter a great many exclaimations to deities, usually the day after when you discover muscles you didn't know you had!
Cool!! That may be worth checking into just to piss people off around here!!
But I practice & teach Kung Fu. Does the fact I don't have everybody in saffron robes & chanting sutras (Buddhist) or wearing grey robes with ridiculously long moustaches & hair in funny braids & hats (Daoist), make it any less that what it is ? Chinese Martial Arts? Hell... Buddha is named in the art I teach.
This guy is pushing his values on people. Sheeple buy into it. Religion is a personal exploration if you're strong enough of mind & spirit. You don't need some low self esteemed holy roller trying to tell you his interpretation of things.
Guidance... maybe... but nothing more.
He's just like all the other thumpers that get or need a little spotlight time. He's doing it for his reasons/gratification/notariety, nothing else or sublime in nature.
Well... isn't this special??
http://www.ajc.com/news/christian-yoga-advocates-in-667153.html
A type of F.U. to him...
http://www.ajc.com/news/christian-yoga-advocates-in-667153.html
A type of F.U. to him...
OP
OP
punisher73
Senior Master
Did you actually read the article? You blame the "Bible thumpers", yet the article talks about how Muslims have already banned the practice in many areas.
Brother John
Senior Master
I don't know Dr. Mohler, but he has SOME good points, but overall ..I don't agree with him.
He's right in that if a person engages in ALL of the eight branches of yoga as they were originally established by the sutras of Patanjali, then he's 100% correct... it was a vehicle for mystical self development under-girded by Hindu theology. In THIS way....it is incompatible with biblical Christianity.
I feel he's wrong in that IF you do not practice ALL 8 branches of the original Yoga (and exceedingly few in N-America do) that you're not doing "Yoga".
Brother Mohler does not define for me any of the following things:
1. What constitutes my yoga practice. I engage in yoga asana and pranayama without it affecting my relationship with God in anyway.
2. The nature of or practice of my relationship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ.
So his pronouncement doesn't affect me any more than...well......ANY other human pronouncement.
Your Brother
John
Hey... what is done in countries where Islam is the core of their society is their business.
This is here.
I don't find the Pastor concerned unreasonable. If you are a believer in a religion that says you shouldn't worship or pray to other gods then you don't. Yoga done with chants does have religious meaning and is praying to other gods. I didn't find that he was disrespecting Yoga or the religion associated with it unlike some others quoted in the article. If you chose to follow a particular religion you should follow it's teachings not make up your own or disregard things you find inconvenient. If you don't like or believe in the teachings don't follow that religion either find one you can believe in or don't have one, the choice is yours.
Whether doing Yoga without the chants is still Yoga or not I really don't know. I don't think however he's trying to stop anyone doing the physical part of Yoga for health. The Christian Church does believe as my religion does that one shouldn't worship or pray to other gods and chanting prayers to Hindu gods isn't exactly keeping to that belief. I don't see anything wrong with chanting to Hindu gods if one believes in them, it's just that you can't easily ride two horses. If you make a promise to worship one particular god one shouldn't break it, I doubt it affects gods but a promise breaker isn't such a good thing to be.
Whether doing Yoga without the chants is still Yoga or not I really don't know. I don't think however he's trying to stop anyone doing the physical part of Yoga for health. The Christian Church does believe as my religion does that one shouldn't worship or pray to other gods and chanting prayers to Hindu gods isn't exactly keeping to that belief. I don't see anything wrong with chanting to Hindu gods if one believes in them, it's just that you can't easily ride two horses. If you make a promise to worship one particular god one shouldn't break it, I doubt it affects gods but a promise breaker isn't such a good thing to be.
Omar B
Senior Master
Other Christian leaders have said practicing yoga is incompatible with the teachings of Jesus. Pat Robertson has called the chanting and other spiritual components that go along with yoga "really spooky." California megachurch pastor John MacArthur called yoga a "false religion." Muslim clerics have banned Muslims from practicing yoga in Egypt, Malaysia and Indonesia, citing similar concerns. http://www.ajc.com/news/christian-yoga-advocates-in-667153.html
Isnt it just like the southern baptists to reduce another major world religion to simply "chanting" and "being spooky" (whatever the f that means). Anyone calling Yoga a false religion is insane, it does not claim to be a religion at all. It can play a part in a religion, but it fills the same void any other working out would, the "Body" part of a person's constant development.
Isnt it just like the southern baptists to reduce another major world religion to simply "chanting" and "being spooky" (whatever the f that means). Anyone calling Yoga a false religion is insane, it does not claim to be a religion at all. It can play a part in a religion, but it fills the same void any other working out would, the "Body" part of a person's constant development.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
DAMN!!!! So then I am guessing you’re saying I’m not a Buddhist because I went to Tanzhe Temple either….well looks like I have to buy a WHOLE new wardrobe :uhyeah:
I did that before I went to Bái Yún Gùan…and apparently it made no difference :disgust: :uhyeah:
Yep... that's what I'm saying dude. Have to deal with it. I do after visiting the Tibetan Monastaries & reading the aforementioned books once upon a time. Nothing changed... I'm still just me.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Damn!!!
Well I guess I have to go shopping to buy new clothes.... do I have to shave off the long beard and mustache too :uhyeah:
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
And for the record as it applies to the OP based on reading throught the thread I am still wondering the same thing
"How secure is someone in their own faith/spirituality if it can be threatened so easily by a Yoga class"
And I know this is not what that person of the story is doing but based on reading through this thread I find it interesting that people are so quick to throw in the first amendment when they feel there freedom is speech is threatened, even though they tend to misunderstand what the first amendment is actually saying. But many seem to forget there is more to the 1st amendment than speech.
"How secure is someone in their own faith/spirituality if it can be threatened so easily by a Yoga class"
And I know this is not what that person of the story is doing but based on reading through this thread I find it interesting that people are so quick to throw in the first amendment when they feel there freedom is speech is threatened, even though they tend to misunderstand what the first amendment is actually saying. But many seem to forget there is more to the 1st amendment than speech.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Actually no, if you believe the origin stories. It was more to keep them strong enough to endure the long hours needed to train their religion. IT was not an extension of it.
But I do not want to get into a long discussion about Eastern vs. Western views and compartmentalization or the lack thereof again.
The only thing I will say is that you can see in the I Ching thing that apply to Taiji but that does not make Taiji an extension of Daoism nor is practicing Taiji an extension or expression of Daoism.
To say any of this is an extension of Daoism or Buddhism is kind of like saying if I study science, math or physics I will see a plus sign which is a cross so it is an extension of Christianity.
This really is just getting old or maybe it's BEEN old since before I was even born.
Me step-mum wonders why I don't attend her Southern Baptist church whenever I have a sunday off from work. Well DUH! I went once and when I saw the drum kit, synthesizers and electric git-tars over by the choir, then listened (or tried to) to the young, hip, bald preacher with the van-dyke facial hair, his expensive suit and walking around quietly talking out his sermon which was punctuated with occasional outbursts of vocal emphasis
shrug: ...zzzz.... :eye-popping: ) to be sure his audience wasn't nodding off... I never went back again... for about 5 years... don't plan on it either.
As much good as these guys do for people in finding a happier way of living through their Lord Jesus Christ... they tend to come up with some of the most asinine concepts about other religions and faiths. Even with different Christian faiths.
The Koran burning idjit down in Florida for example... and now this guy.
They're the same type of idjits that condemn practicing Martial Arts because you're bowing to someone or a symbol in the dojo.
They take another faith/religion's concept and warp out of context to make theirs look a lot better.
It's the Ours is right theirs is wrong kind of teachings that has had me put off on organized religion for years.
Until you die you won't know for SURE who exactly is right about the whole after life (or not) thing. For all we know the atheists may have it spot on, right on the nose! That's the one thing that sucks about death... you can't come back and tell everyone what is on the other side... if anything.
Anyway... you have a belief, you spout it to others, they agree, they wanna hear more and follow you, give you money so you can keep alive and decent and have a place to teach them more and discover a way to live and thus a religion is born or passed down since it's inception a few months ago or a few hundred to a few thousand years ago.
Sigh... it's getting old.
Me step-mum wonders why I don't attend her Southern Baptist church whenever I have a sunday off from work. Well DUH! I went once and when I saw the drum kit, synthesizers and electric git-tars over by the choir, then listened (or tried to) to the young, hip, bald preacher with the van-dyke facial hair, his expensive suit and walking around quietly talking out his sermon which was punctuated with occasional outbursts of vocal emphasis
shrug: ...zzzz.... :eye-popping: ) to be sure his audience wasn't nodding off... I never went back again... for about 5 years... don't plan on it either.As much good as these guys do for people in finding a happier way of living through their Lord Jesus Christ... they tend to come up with some of the most asinine concepts about other religions and faiths. Even with different Christian faiths.
The Koran burning idjit down in Florida for example... and now this guy.
They're the same type of idjits that condemn practicing Martial Arts because you're bowing to someone or a symbol in the dojo.
They take another faith/religion's concept and warp out of context to make theirs look a lot better.
It's the Ours is right theirs is wrong kind of teachings that has had me put off on organized religion for years.
Until you die you won't know for SURE who exactly is right about the whole after life (or not) thing. For all we know the atheists may have it spot on, right on the nose! That's the one thing that sucks about death... you can't come back and tell everyone what is on the other side... if anything.
Anyway... you have a belief, you spout it to others, they agree, they wanna hear more and follow you, give you money so you can keep alive and decent and have a place to teach them more and discover a way to live and thus a religion is born or passed down since it's inception a few months ago or a few hundred to a few thousand years ago.
Sigh... it's getting old.
Nah... Keep the Fu Manchu. It helps with winter winds & I hear ladies dig 'em... :bangahead:
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
So I can keep the beard and Mustache but the Daoist and Buddhist clothes must change is that itÂ… but IÂ’ve been to China and I use to train the Guandao so is it still ok to dress like this
So I can keep the beard and Mustache but the Daoist and Buddhist clothes must change is that itÂ… but IÂ’ve been to China and I use to train the Guandao so is it still ok to dress like this
If you feel good about it... don't let anybody tell you no.
BWAHAHAHAHA
OP
OP
punisher73
Senior Master
Hmmm. Can't have it both ways. A dominately Islamic country says don't do something and that is fine. A dominately Christian country and someone says don't do something for Christians is not fine? Whether people want to admit it or not 85% of the US proclaims to be Christian.
He didn't call for yoga to be outlawed, didn't call for people to start protesting yoga classes. Merely stated his opinion that his belief is that the core tenants of yoga if believed to be true, are not consitant with the core tenants of Christianity if believed to be true. How is your belief anymore valid or important than his?
If you are defining yoga as he is (a spritual practice tied in with Hinduism), than it does not fit in with Christian doctrine or Muslim doctrine, or Jewish doctrine. If you only view yoga as a physical practice the same as pilates, than it does not conflict with Christianity.
What part don't you agree with of his? His belief? Again, why is his belief any more or less valid than yours? Why is it when ANY Christian leader expresses an opinion that is not popular, even though it IS consistant with what the Bible teaches is wrong (I am not talking about people changing around scriptures to support positions that are not biblical, such as white supremicists using it to support racism, or using the Bible to persecute people)?
