Some information about the Gunting Knife

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DoctorB

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The following information is about new publications and reviews on the Gunting Knife designed by a Modern Arnis Master Senior Instructor, Bram Frank. It seems that in Europe, and some police and military circles, the knife is getting some great reviews and sales figures, in spite of the fact that Spyderco, has not seen fit to put any real advertising money behind the product!

This is a real word of mouth, underground, campaign by people like myself who love to make others aware of this uniquely innovative tool for self defense. (I do give seminars on the gunting and other hand held tools for self defense.)

Check out the following information...

Gunting Trainer in the Jan/Feb/Mar 2003 issue of Lame, the Italian
knife magazine produced by Massimo Vallini.

CSSD/ Combat Arnis (Matster Frank's organization) and the CRIMPT (a vnon-bladed version of the Gunting knife) written up in the French knife magazine EXCALIBUR, release is June 2003.

The Gunting CRMIPT is in ASLET magazine: called best less than lethal tool designed for LEO... ASLET is an international training organization for LEOs.

The Gunting is in Police Journal and Police Magazine. (USA)

The Gunting CRMIPT is in FIRE magazine of Belgium

The Gunting & training program is in Excaliber of France-Belgium (a different magazine with seperate editorial staffs and policies.)

Gunting & fixed blade knife fighting training programs by Master Frank is featured in the current issue of MUGAN, an Israeli Security Magazine.

The Gunting & the CSSD/Combat Arnis training programs & training tools developed by Master Frank are the feature story in Aug 03 Knives Illustrated.

Tactical Knives has named Master Frank listed as one of Top Ten knife instructors in next issue.. June 2003.

The TSA-FAMs are writing the Gunting-CRMIPT into the offical curriculumn of the United Sates Air Marshals.

The USMC MACE@ Quantico.. the Marine Rangers and Special Operations Forces want Master Frank to teach the Instructors @ MACE ( Marines very own Martial Art Program).
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Not bad for a knife and training program that was designed around the conceptual principles of Modern Arnis and Small Circle Jiu-jitsu, by a guy that some "leading" Modern Arnis people want to claim never studied the art or even met the Professor!

Senior Master Frank will be a featured instructor at the Modern Arnis Symposium, July 2003, in Buffalo, NY. This would be a great opportunity for some folks to see both the tool and the tool designer at the same time and place... very innovative feature,
pairing the two at this event, wouldn't you say?

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.
 
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Red Blade

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Originally posted by DoctorB
Senior Master Frank will be a featured instructor at the Modern Arnis Symposium, July 2003, in Buffalo, NY. This would be a great opportunity for some folks to see both the tool and the tool designer at the same time and place... very innovative feature,
pairing the two at this event, wouldn't you say?

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

I think that EVERYONE in EVERY Modern Arnis Thread knows that Guro Bram will be at your Symposium!


Can you say "Informercial"? :confused:
 
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Emptyglass

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Red Blade:

If you wouldn't mind, could you please explain to me why you have such a negative attitude toward statements regarding the quality of the content the of July Modern Arnis Sympoisum being organized by Dr. Barber, and are so positive towards the same actions taken by Datu Hartman as to the content of the WMAA Camp as evidenced below:
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Red Blade
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2 Datus, 2 GMs (one of which is a Datu) + a variety of FMA insrtuctors. Sound like it's going to be a blast! Who will be doing some the demonstrations?
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Red Blade
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It would seem to me that if you are so bothered by such "infomercials", you should be equally negative towards both statements of content unless there is something else behind your statements that isn't apparent.

Please feel free to e-mail me your answer if you are so inclined at:
Gutterrunner13@yahoo.com
or post them here on the forums if you feel that is more appropriate.

If I'm off base here, please feel free to let me known privately or publicly on the forums as is your preference. I'm simply drawing my observations from your postings here.

Regards,

Richard Curren
 

Phil Elmore

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I am working on reviews of the three Gunting tools and some of Bram's instructional tapes. I will post when they are done.
 
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Red Blade

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If you wouldn't mind, could you please explain to me why you have such a negative attitude toward statements regarding the quality of the content the of July Modern Arnis Sympoisum being organized by Dr. Barber, and are so positive towards the same actions taken by Datu Hartman as to the content of the WMAA Camp as evidenced below:

The WMAA camp thread is contained to camp thread. It has been mentioned before that the Symp topic bleeds over into too many threads. This is the problem I have. I have no problem with Dr. B's event. If I have time, I plan on attending it.

The other problem I have is that Dr. B has said that this event will give people the opportunity to prove whether or not they are worthy of the rank or titles that Professor awarded them. My question is who appointed Dr. B to this task and how do we know if HE is worthy of it?

Food for thought--
 
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Emptyglass

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Red Blade:

You said:

"The other problem I have is that Dr. B has said that this event will give people the opportunity to prove whether or not they are worthy of the rank or titles that Professor awarded them."

Where has this been stated? Please show me that as I haven't seen it stated as a purpose of the Symposium anywhere by Dr. Barber and it certainly doesn't sound like him. Please provide some proof of that statement if you wish.

Additionally, if such a thing occurs and people who claim titles are embarassed or made to look like fools in the face of more efficient but less vocal/highly advertised practicioners, so what? How does this hurt the art? Not hardly! All it does is save the wallets of people who may believe the press such people are publishing about themselves.

Regards,

Richard Curren
 

Dan Anderson

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Originally posted by Red Blade

The other problem I have is that Dr. B has said that this event will give people the opportunity to prove whether or not they are worthy of the rank or titles that Professor awarded them. My question is who appointed Dr. B to this task and how do we know if HE is worthy of it?

Food for thought--

Hi Red,
As you might know, there has been a lot fluff and fol de rol about who is who in th Modern Arnis world now that Prof. Presas isn't here. There have been a number of people saying this and that and it has been contested by others. So, a broad based Symposium does give everybody atending the opportunity to see who is good and who isn't as well as who specializes in what aspect of Modern Arnis.

So your question, ...who appointed Dr. B to the task and how do we know if HE is worthy of it? is best answered by A) anybody can put on a symposium and B) the individuals training there will make whatever judgement they want to make concerning anyone teaching or training.

I do know for a fact that I am not going to be pointing fingers and dissing anyone. I highly think that Dr.B and the others aren't either. It's going to be hot weekend, training wise, and when we get on the floor with sticks and knives in our hands, all the political fluff will go by the wayside rather quickly.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
 
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Emptyglass

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Dan Anderson said:

" I do know for a fact that I am not going to be pointing fingers and dissing anyone. I highly think that Dr.B and the others aren't either."

In case the idea is in question, I agree with Mr. Anderson 150% on this and will be taking the same course of action at the Symposium. Anyone who wants to come to the table and either serve or partake of the Filipino Martial Arts bounty is equally welcome in my opinion. :)

Best Regards,

Richard Curren
 

Pappy Geo

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Bram has honor, as he is one of the few seniors who is doing something for his country and his heritage country! My respect goes to you Bram for serving our country in the best way you can, it will make a difference to our men in combat if it evens saves one life or changes an outcome of a battle through the knowledge you impart upon them!

Outside of Datu Worden, his assistants and Bram Frank is there others giving combative arts training to our military?
 
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Red Blade

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Originally posted by Emptyglass
Red Blade:

You said:

"The other problem I have is that Dr. B has said that this event will give people the opportunity to prove whether or not they are worthy of the rank or titles that Professor awarded them."

Where has this been stated? Please show me that as I haven't seen it stated as a purpose of the Symposium anywhere by Dr. Barber and it certainly doesn't sound like him. Please provide some proof of that statement if you wish.

Additionally, if such a thing occurs and people who claim titles are embarassed or made to look like fools in the face of more efficient but less vocal/highly advertised practicioners, so what? How does this hurt the art? Not hardly! All it does is save the wallets of people who may believe the press such people are publishing about themselves.

Regards,

Richard Curren

This is implied here. There was more but I can't find it at the moment. I'll keep looking for you.


It is matter that is centered on 2 major points, personality and martial arts skills. Have you been able to indentify anyone who has both in ample abundance to make you feel that you could/ would support their use of the title?

There has been a lot of talk about titles and rank, but in the end doesn't all come down to ability? The titles and rank are paper oriented, but ability is both demonstrated and apparent when viewed by others. My goal for the 2003 Symposium is to give all of the instructors the opportunity to demonstate their Modern Arnis ability regardless of rank and title. There will be a good number of conversations, there will be time to discuss the similarities and differences in approaches, but the telling differences will be in ability and presentation. That is part of the reason that I invited MTB to be on the program - in short to show us that the title has been earned based on ability and not merely to disable an insulting association with a personal action. My invitation was genuine and I accept MTB's decision to decline as genuine, as well.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4584&perpage=15&pagenumber=4
 
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Red Blade

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Remeber, the Martial Talk site did crash and some of the data was lost.
 

Rich Parsons

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Originally posted by Pappy Geo
Bram has honor, as he is one of the few seniors who is doing something for his country and his heritage country! My respect goes to you Bram for serving our country in the best way you can, it will make a difference to our men in combat if it evens saves one life or changes an outcome of a battle through the knowledge you impart upon them!

Outside of Datu Worden, his assistants and Bram Frank is there others giving combative arts training to our military?


Pappy Geo,

No Disrepesect to you, Bram or Worden or any others. Yet, your comment is just as valid as the one that follows?

Has anybody here written better software or designed a better system for a TANK M1A2 or for a NBCR (* Nuclear Biological Checmical Reconaisance *) Vehicle? Or an helped out in testing for the F-16 or other military planes, or for the Subs patrolling our coast and the coasts of the action zones?

Some people, do their job, and grow food, others do their job and build or assmebly a car for the guy who is to go to work to work to build the weapons for this conflict.

I appriciate Bram's work and respect it, yet I will not let others try to make me or anyone else feel bad for doing their normal job and not having a face to face relationshp with our men and women in the field.

This side discussion was not about Bram and his knife, it is between Red Blade and DoctorB and perceptions. Others have stepped int to give their opinion, which is fine. Yet Like I said I will not let anyone try to lord their postion over me. For you do not know those that may not have the clearance to speak at this time either.

No back to your regularly scheduled DIATRIBE!

:asian:
 
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Red Blade

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This is one of the major reasons why I propsed and have worked to establish the 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium. Let's bring people together, face to face, so that we can talk about standards, compare and contrast individual stylistic movements. And I submit that **there is** an emperical way to prove ones Modern Arnis skills. Since we are going to have eleven (11) Modern Arnis instructors taking the floor during the combined 51 hours of training at the Symposium, everyone in attendance will have the opportunity to do some serious side by side comparisons. Then you can judge for yourselves who has the greater Modern Arnis skill levels from those who are not as skilled.
 

Pappy Geo

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Its funny how the written word can be understood more than one way. I understand different people contribute in many ways.

The senior guys in this art are usually full time and there is two sides to what they do, one is the art and the other is "martial". Teaching the art to civilians is normal but the opportunity to teach the martial or combative side to the military has to be an ultimate achievement.

I am sure there are others doing so I just was wondering who.

Please don't take the previous as derogatory, not every body has the opportunity to work with the military even when qualified.

A lot of the Guros work with the law enforcement, that is special also. The vast majority never have that opportunity either.

Everybody walks the path of their choice for their own personal reasons.

Please give me the benifit of the doubt when reading my postings
and assume they are meant to be positive and sincere not inflamatory.
 

Rich Parsons

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Originally posted by Pappy Geo
Its funny how the written word can be understood more than one way. I understand different people contribute in many ways.

The senior guys in this art are usually full time and there is two sides to what they do, one is the art and the other is "martial". Teaching the art to civilians is normal but the opportunity to teach the martial or combative side to the military has to be an ultimate achievement.

I am sure there are others doing so I just was wondering who.

Please don't take the previous as derogatory, not every body has the opportunity to work with the military even when qualified.

A lot of the Guros work with the law enforcement, that is special also. The vast majority never have that opportunity either.

Everybody walks the path of their choice for their own personal reasons.

Please give me the benifit of the doubt when reading my postings
and assume they are meant to be positive and sincere not inflamatory.

Pappy Geo,

Like I said No Disrespect meant.

I and others have had the chance to teach Law Enforcement officers, and even some military. Most of it is just those that walk into the club and ask for training. Yet, I see more application for the local Law Enforcement then I do for the men and women in the field. Just my opinion. Those in the Field have a clear rule of engagement and will not be put on Admin Leave for firing their weapon, until they are cleared of all possible charges.

I cannot speak for others so, you will have to wait for their reply.

Everyone does their part. :asian:



PS: Pappy Geo, we need more input from everyone. Chime in all the time. It helps to keep everyone honest. :)
 

arnisador

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Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Chime in all the time. It halps to keep everyone honest.

Definitely!

Yes, much respect for anyone working with the military or with LEOs.

Like Rich Parsons, I've done my share of technical consulting (AFRL, NSWC) and have been similarly employed as a civilian by the Dept. of the Army and the Dept. of the Navy, and I'm pleased with what I've accomplished in that regard. But yes, this is a martial arts board and so that isn't quite as relevant as teaching martial arts to the military! We would be interested I'm sure to hear if any direct use is made of that training (indirect use, in terms of confidence and such, I'm sure is common), if such info. can be released--it's a recurring question as to how much value in modern warfare martial arts training and even bayonetry has.
 
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DoctorB

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Originally posted by Red Blade
The WMAA camp thread is contained to camp thread. It has been mentioned before that the Symp topic bleeds over into too many threads. This is the problem I have. I have no problem with Dr. B's event. If I have time, I plan on attending it.

The other problem I have is that Dr. B has said that this event will give people the opportunity to prove whether or not they are worthy of the rank or titles that Professor awarded them. My question is who appointed Dr. B to this task and how do we know if HE is worthy of it?

Food for thought--

Hey There, Red Blade,

I am so sorry that the "symp" comments so upset you! I have suggested that you not read my posts, because there is a strong possibilty that I will mention the "symp". BTW, I would appricate it if you were more creative, "symp" has already been used by someone else to try to discredit the event... it didn't work then and it will not now!

I do hope that you will attend. That is why it is being put on, so people can attend, share, exchange, talk face to face and get a better sense of just how viable the Modern Arnis really is, even though the founder is no longer with us.

Now to address your "other problem". I am not the one who will determining anything about rank and title!!! I am merely the person who has set up the Symposium and will handle the administrative stuff associated with it.

The people attending will make their own judgements about the quality and skill level of the various instructors. My judgements are mine and I have to wait until the event has come and gone before I can offer my opinions.... and they will be reflective of myself and no one else.

A number of people have post very strongly pointed opinions about various Modern Arnis players and some Modern Arnis players have attributed certin qualities to themselves with regard to what their rank and titles meant in the overall scheme of the art. I have simply provided an arena where we could see all or some of these highly placed, self professed new leaders in a neutral setting. None of the self professed leaders are attending the Symposum, therefore the "Conceptual Martial Arts Exchange" sub-title was added to reflect what the Symposium has become. From my perspective that is not a bad thing. Actually it is the best thing that could of happened. Now we can truely concentrate on the art and how different people present it.

Am I worthy? What are you asking? Are you going to be at the WMAA Camp? Perhaps we should have breakfast together and then work as training partners for the Saturday morning session.
I could really use the benefit of your considerable insights.

BTW, since I don't have such a classy screen name, would you be so kind as to state your given names?

Jerome Barber.
 
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Emptyglass

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Red Blade:

Where in any of the passages you quoted does it mention Professor Remy Presas or the ranks awarded by him?

In fact, one of the passages you quoted states this:

"My goal for the 2003 Symposium is to give all of the instructors the opportunity to demonstate their Modern Arnis ability regardless of rank and title."

Dr. Barber is simply organizing the opportunity for folks to look at the differences and skill levels of a variety of different takes on the Art in a side-by-side fashion. It sure doesn't sound to me like this is meant to be a basis for judgement of quality, simply an observation of the different routes one can take to reach proficiency.

Sorry, but based on the evidence you have provided so
far, I don't think you have supported your stance on the following statement you made earlier.:

"The other problem I have is that Dr. B has said that this event will give people the opportunity to prove whether or not they are worthy of the rank or titles that Professor awarded them. My question is who appointed Dr. B to this task and how do we know if HE is worthy of it?"

In fact you have weakened your own argument by the evidence you have provided. As for the loss of data to from the MartialTalk system. If it's not there and someone can't produce it, going off of memory isn't an accurate enough resource in my opinion as memory has the annoying tendency to become faulty after a time.

Sorry, but I still don't see it.

Regards,

Richard Curren
 
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