some disturbing Terror news

Gary Crawford said:
Mr. Ward,I mean no disrespect,but after 9-11,all the pundents could talk about was that it could have been prevented.Now we have an incident that occured only a few weeks ago that many have found interesting enough that several news agencies have dicussed today and you seem to be cavalier about it.I really hope that I am just overreacting by being concerned about this.But,what if something does happen again?Will we see the same finger pointing?I'd rather be wrong about this now than be right when it does happen.
Click to expand...
Gary, I do not take any of the comments on this board as disrespectful, unless they are obviously meant that way.

By the way, my name is Mike Atkinson ... michaeledward is just a screenname .. michael edward Atkinson.

I am that cavalier about this. Of course, if I thought that what is being described in the article really happened, I might be a bit less cavalier. But, I don't believe the article. I think it is more like a kid pulling the fire alarm in school.

I was on a Boeing 737 on September 10, 2001. And, if my flight could get off the ground, I would have been on a plane September 13, 2001 (I guess only Saudi's were able to fly that day ... I had to drive.

I still say .. the story stinks ... Check out this seat chart on Seat Guru.
http://www.seatguru.com/northwest/B753.shtml

Today (Don't know about 6/29/2004) NW327 was a Boeing 757-300. Seats 17 A, B & C don't really have a very clear view of 1st class seat 1A (and the author mentioned she watched this person several times). She also references 7 men standing at once and going to the front and rear lavatories ... the rear lavatories are 23 rows back. I just don't think that watching those locations is a easy as she is describes.

Lastly, (for now), something will happen again. I just don't think it is going to be airplanes. But, even if it is another airline attack, it is still safer than driving an automobile; it is safer than smoking; it is safer than being overweight.

I believe that those who jump to believe this story, rather than being a bit skeptical, have already allowed the 'terrorists' to win. You are allowing their tactics to affect your behavior. I am certainly not suggesting that anyone engage in obviously foolish behavior (I have a jewish friend who just signed up for a year long contract in Baghdad - FOOLISH), but to reasonably evaluate threats is something we all should be doing; and I think this story is unreasonable.

Mike
 
Mike - good research. Man, you take this stuff pretty seriously. On the subject of the "terrorists winning", you make a good point. I also think that it's likely the next 'vehicle' of terror will not be an airplane. Way too obvious. Nonetheless - its all pretty freaky.
 
Mr.Ward,thank you for that reply.I think I understand where you are coming from now.I guess being a cold war USAF(SAC) veteran,has messed up my thinking.I was trained for the most unlikely,but always possible scenerio,nuclear war.I always understood that the only reason why it didn't happen was our vast arsenal and our vigilance,but if it did happen,everyone at our base would be toast.So you see,our only chance of surviving the cold war was the daily understanding that what we do today prevents the catastraphy of tomorow.The best I can tell,it worked.That's why I don't take the luxury of being "cavalier" about any threat until it has been proven to be a non-threat.Another thing that motivates me was before 9-11,I read a story linked to the "drudgereport" about a bold statement that Bin Laden stating "that america was going to see destruction beyond anything they could imagine"(I don't remember the exact words,but that is close).For some reason,I believed him.About a week before I read that,I was in Bristol,Va and noticed three middleeastern men(wearing turbins with long hair and beards in the parking lot of Wal-Mart in a 1 ton Chevy dually P\U with Onterio tags.This all by itself made me suspicious.I couldn't help but wonder "Why are these people here?Why would they enter the U.S. from Canada?" The Oakridge facility isn't that far from us.I reported it to the F.B.I. who didn't take it seriously.When it happened,it took me 1 second to know that this was he was talking about.I wll never forget how I felt that day and will probably never get over it.So now you must understand why I must take information like this seriously.Like I said before"I'd rather be wrong about this today than be right about this tomorow"
 
This thread was NEVER suppost to be political.Since it has been moved.It has reached it's conclusion.
 
michaeledward said:
I believe that those who jump to believe this story, rather than being a bit skeptical, have already allowed the 'terrorists' to win.
Click to expand...
Even worse than allowing "terrorists to win", I think that this sort of fear mongering lends itself handily to abuses of power by scoundrels.

It's natural for people to be afraid after that happened on 9/11 (among other acts), and I really can't blame people for being nervous and afraid. In particular, I respect the desire of people like Gary (especially when they're hardened Cold Warriors) to feel the need to be "on alert" to help defend us.

In the end, though, this sort of thing has been used throughout history by the powerhungry to justify tearing down the institutions of freedom that we claim to be striving to defend. Orwell warned us of it, we've seen it in dictatorships throughout history (fascist, autarcical, and otherwise), and we're seeing it now with our current administration. (To be fair, we also saw it with a lesser degree after Oklahoma City with the Clinton admin)

Just as I think it serves us to be vigilant to terror, I think it's far more important to be vigilant against those in our own system who would strip our freedoms.
 
PeachMonkey said:
It's natural for people to be afraid after that happened on 9/11 (among other acts), and I really can't blame people for being nervous and afraid. In particular, I respect the desire of people like Gary (especially when they're hardened Cold Warriors) to feel the need to be "on alert" to help defend us.
Click to expand...
It may be natural, but it does not follow that being afraid, nervous or in some other state of heightened alertness is rational.

Some of this pervasive response, no doubt, exists because we watched the events of September 11, 2001 play out live on television. We were all very connected to that day.

The only time I can think of that even comes close to a similar shared experience is the Challenger. We all watched that; the solid rocket motors driving away, and then crossing over each other as the debris arced out of the sky and then accelerated like a stone falling of the tower of Pisa.

Of course, most of us knew we weren't going to be on a Space Shuttle any time soon. There is a big difference when an airplane was used as a weapon. Hell, we all know someone who has been on an airplane recently.

I do not believe it is rational for US Citizens in living in Joplin, Missouri or Oconomowoc, Wisconsin to fear acts of terrorism like those perpetrated on September 11, 2001. While it is possible that al Qaeda might strike in the American Heartland (or Suburbia), there are many more things to be afraid of in those communities. Some of which, they may actually have the power to affect change on.

If we all were able to get as motivated about preventing the timber and paper companies from building logging roads through some of our pristine wilderness areas as we are about watching olive-skinned people maybe our children would inherit a planet that actually works.

Thanks for listening to my rant. Mike
 
She lost me by 1) quoting Ann Coulter. and 2) the flight attendant telling the husband that Air Marshalls aboard were aware of the situation. First, more than 1 Air Marshall aboard any flight is more like a convention and second, no member of the flight crew, even if aware that an Air Marshall is aboard would EVER confirm or deny the fact to a random passenger. And as it has been pointed out, you can't observe that many people scattered over a lat=rge plane like that. Nic piece of scare propaganda.
 
As many others on the thread have suggested, I believe more and more that this is a crafted piece of propaganda.

See:

http://www.ludickid.com/0513.htm

To sum: Asif Ali Khan & Party, a famous band (Asif is the protege of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, a worldwide legend) was forced out of three flights during a tour of the United States to *raise money for a US literacy charity* because they "looked suspicious". The details mysteriously match the information that the author of the screed starting this post claim to have observed from her seat.

Would I put it past Ann Coulter and/or some of her fellows to spin this incident? I think you already know my answer to that question, my friends.
 
I would like to point out that the editorial section of the wall street journal has a very bad reputation. I make it a point never to buy a story when there are no sources listed.
 
ASSUMING... that the story is real... A few observations, right or wrong, this is what went thru my head reading that...


If I had observed that behavior from ANY group of people...

Black, White, Middle eastern, Asian, Hispanic, martian...

I would have been nervous as hell. But instead of sitting on my *** and waiting for somthing to happen, I would have confronted one or more of those people and asked them what the HELL they were doing.

At worst, if I was wrong, Id be sitting in some interrigation room explaining why I got out of hand on the plane for a couple hours, and have a few people poed at me for assuming they were up to no good.

If I was right... I may have either forced their hand, or caused them to abort. If I forced their hand before a bomb was completed, yay me... we have melee on the plane, and hopefully a few people help out, and most of the passengers go home to their families. If they abort, everyone goes home safe.

If it was fake, well... it was food for thought.
 
I'm with Technopunk on this.

I'm also surprised that the crew would allow people to stand around in the back or at the front for more than a few minutes. When I get on the plane, the crew always tell me to sit down so other people can get by or whatever. There is too much time before plane leaving and so "many things happening", too many inconsistencies that doesn't match with how airlines usually handle their passengers, so I am led to believe that this is just that, a story.

- Ceicei

Technopunk said:
ASSUMING... that the story is real... A few observations, right or wrong, this is what went thru my head reading that...


If I had observed that behavior from ANY group of people...

Black, White, Middle eastern, Asian, Hispanic, martian...

I would have been nervous as hell. But instead of sitting on my *** and waiting for somthing to happen, I would have confronted one or more of those people and asked them what the HELL they were doing.

At worst, if I was wrong, Id be sitting in some interrigation room explaining why I got out of hand on the plane for a couple hours, and have a few people poed at me for assuming they were up to no good.

If I was right... I may have either forced their hand, or caused them to abort. If I forced their hand before a bomb was completed, yay me... we have melee on the plane, and hopefully a few people help out, and most of the passengers go home to their families. If they abort, everyone goes home safe.

If it was fake, well... it was food for thought.
Click to expand...
 
Okay...so the crew allowed the suspicious guys do all this stuff. Not one tried to stop them. Can we really expect this after 9-11?

The Air Marshall(s) didn't do diddly until after they landed.

The passengers didn't intervene or panic.

All of the suspicious objects passed inspection at the airport. Now we might assume this was a "dry run" and they were practicing with a loaf of french bread and a Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese and a large fries.

The stewardess asks the woman for a description of the man in the yellow shirt. Why? An Arab in a yellow shirt sort of stands out...the stewardess could have gotten the description and seat number herself.

Snopes is checking it out, and here's an article by another skeptic that points out a number of things well worth considering:

http://www.donaldsensing.com/2004/07/casing-northwest-327-threat-or-hoax.html




Regards,


Steve
 
Good article.

Anybody notice how Michelle Maklin promoted the piece, though she couldn't find any substantial support for it?

Its an election year...scare people, Mickey.

Regards,


Steve
 
http://afpc.asso.fr/wengu/wg/wengu.php?l=36ji&no=1

If this story is true, then the above link may be an explination.

We are being so well trained to look the other way rather than face accusations that we are racist that when something really does happen, it will be too late to stop it.

In the story the flight crew did nothing when seven members of the group all stood up at the same time when the plane was making its final approach and everyone is supposed to have their seat belts on. They then walked around the cabin.

Why didn't they do anything? Possibly because there have been many, many false alarms and there is the very real danger of multi million lawsuits being brought against the airline and the flight crew member that takes the initiative being fired.
 
Don Roley said:
http://afpc.asso.fr/wengu/wg/wengu.php?l=36ji&no=1

In the story the flight crew did nothing when seven members of the group all stood up at the same time when the plane was making its final approach and everyone is supposed to have their seat belts on. They then walked around the cabin.

Why didn't they do anything? Possibly because there have been many, many false alarms and there is the very real danger of multi million lawsuits being brought against the airline and the flight crew member that takes the initiative being fired.
Click to expand...
Yet the possibility of a lawsuit because of injury resulting from walking around while taxiing when the passenger(s) should have been in a seatbelt is pretty high. I would think the airline would try to enforce the seatbelt rule for safety/liability reasons than just allow seven people to walk around.

- Ceicei
 
auxprix said:
I would like to point out that the editorial section of the wall street journal has a very bad reputation. I make it a point never to buy a story when there are no sources listed.
Click to expand...
This article, and a follow up were published in 'Womens Wall Street', I do not know if this publication is connected to the 'Wall Street Journal'.

Of course, an Editorial Section of any paper can print whatever they want, from any point of view; as an 'Editorial' is not 'News', but rather 'Opinion'.

Thanks for contributing. Mike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Fair MN Elections?

Previous Thread

"They Hate Us Cuz We're Free"

Next Thread

Latest Discussions

Back
Top