So tell me about France

[Touch Of Death]

Oh...

Well, let me assure you, that that could not be farther from the truth.
Practically everybody pays taxes, no matter how little they earn. But just like in the US (I guess) you pay in windows. So the first part of your wages are subject to 10% income tax. The next window of x0000euro is covered by 15% tax. And so on. The US will have different percentages of course.

What could be correct, is that only 1/4 of the population have wages that fall in the highest bracket. Or something like that.

Employers also don't have to pay the government the same in taxes which they pay the employee, though this lie is based in fact. In Belgium (and I assume in France to, since our fiscal models have similarities) an employer pays a tax as well for the employment. I don't know the rationale for this because I never really bothered to do the research. The percentage varies, depending on whether the job is public or private, and some other factors, but it can be up to 30%. Granted, this is still a sizable amount, but not 100% of course, and not for all employees.

So you see, the story is different from the Fox story (shock horror).
And while Conservative Americans sometimes say that socialist people expect to get a full wage without working... That's not correct either. If you lose your job, you get a % of your former wages for a fixed amount of time. I don't know how long exactly, but say it's a year, or even 2. I don't know, but it is something like that.

This is intended as a saftey net, and allows people to find new jobs within their domain without having to sell their house immediately, or without having to start flipping burgers. Because if you've spent a year flipping burgers, it's hard to get back into semiconductor research or avionics, or anything that requires keeping active and up to date. And if you can find another job, you'll be again a serious asset to the economy, with minimal disruption to your family and the economy. Everybody wins.

If you don't find a job within that period, you drop down to welfare income.
And honestly, I would invite any skeptic to give it a try sometime, if I could. You'll live. If you use the money sparingly, live in cheap or socialized apartment, and don't spend anything on luxury items. You'll survive. But don't believe that any but a very small minority will voluntarily choose this situation.

Those people are not sitting on the beach drinking margaritas while we are working hard. These people wear second hand clothes, live in a house with practically no heating, and eat food that is enough to survive. And the majority of those people (which are a minority) would do anything to get even a bais job, but can't have one for some reason or other. They won't become homeless drifters, aye. I am proud of that. But they are not living la vida loca.

Fox says its because they are hard to fire.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

Fox says its because they are hard to fire.
Sean

I HAVE GOT TO APOLOGIZE TO FOX NEWS... I just remembered I saw this on the seven hundred club the other day. Oooops.
Sean

 

[Bruno@MT]

Fox says its because they are hard to fire.
Sean

Yes and No

Firing someone is easy enough.
The problem is that if you don't have a solid reason (like theft, grave mistakes, violation of workplace policies, etc...) the company needs to pay a couple of months severance. Typically this is 3 to 6 months for office workers and most people with a desk job.
For factory workers this is lower. 1 to 3 months IIRC.

This is by law. At will employment like in the US does not exist here. It works both ways as well. You can't quit your job from one day to the other without agreement from the company or you end up in court. A mutually agreed period of up to 3 months allows the employer to seek replacement. Because this works both ways, it is generally never a problem. And since the company has commitments to its employees, the employees generally have some level of professional pride / loyalty to the company they work for.

In some professions, it is customary to fire you and pay the 3 months, or to quit and the company lets you go immediately. With sales and commercial functions this happens a lot to prevent poaching of clients.

But this is not limited to France. Many western European countries have similar structures.
However, I think it is silly to equate economic viability on the ability to quickly get rid of people. and whatever FOX or anyone might think: it has been like this since ages, and it doesn't seem to have influenced our ability to compete with other countries throughout economic ups and downs.

This is like saying our economy is not sustainable because we have 30 paid holidays per year. Analysis has shown that an average employee here is equally productive over a year as in the US. But the argument still crops up from time to time because Americans are expected to live for their job, to always have a job and companies are expected not to benefit from employees having extra time off.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Addition to my previous post: that is only true for employee positions. Not for temporary contracts or contractor positions. For those, it depends on contract but they are fireable.

Temporary workers can stay on maximum 2 or 3 years as a temp and then either have to go or get an employee contract. contractors can stay as long as you like to pay them, but they are self employed so financially, they are treated differently, and have no right to any of the employee benefits, have to pay for their own pension buildup, no paid sick days, etc.

 

[Xue Sheng]

crushing

you were not rambling, thanks for the post

My first night in Hong Kong a local employee took us to a vegetarian restaurant. I had no idea what to order. I ended up with some sort of seaweed soup that looked like it had eyeballs floating in it. The eyeball things tasted sweater than I would expect eyeballs to be, plus it was a vegetarian plate, so I'm pretty sure they weren't eyeballs. Whatever they were, it was good. Actually, all the food I had in Hong Kong and China tasted really good. Well, except when we ate at the Hard Rock Cafe. That was pretty boring in comparison.

I had those eyeball thingies in Japan. Never did find out what they really were. They weren't bad other than they looked like eyeballs and burst when you bit into them.

I don't know about Japan but in Hong Kong it was likely a sweet rice flour ball (sorry can't remember the actual name at the moment) with either sesame paste or red bean past in it. Although I have been told Japan has something similar by a person from Japan.

 

[Xue Sheng]

You have to look at France as you would the 'United States of America' when asking about it, 'France' is a relatively new country although the name has been around for a long time, it's actually a collection of countries and areas. Probably wasn't until Napoleon that it was all joined up.

Brittany is lovely, the people aren't French but Celtic, their language is almost the same as Cornish. The Cornish and the Bretons have been close for a long time and share a lot of tradtions such as wrestling. Go down to Provence, the people like the weather is warm and welcoming. They don''t consider themselves French but Provencal and have a language similiar to Latin. The south of France is looked down on by Parisians who have long been jealous of the south. There are some lovely wildernesses in the Provencal hills, you can live up there happily.
Lyon is a nice warm city with very good food. Burgundy is a wonderful place for red wine, Baune is the place to make for there. Rheims for champagne.

If you forget about the stereotypes and stay away from Paris ( most French do as they can't stand the place or the inhabitants) you will enjoy France, remember each place is very different. It covers a huge area but has actually very few people so there is a great sense of space in the country.

Thank you

I heard something very similar a few years back from a Nurse I use to work with that was from Norway, that spoke just about every language possible for Europe...except the language of Finland...where her husband saw from and it was the only language her in-laws, that were visiting her at the time, spoke... and her husband was away on business

Nothing to apologise for, Crushing - it was interesting to hear your experiences and 'taste' of other lands.

Tez rather took the wind out of the "Land of the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" spiel I was going to launch into about France :lol:.

Most of the negative cliches that we all have about The French (TM) are down to Parisians. Much like Londoners over here in England, they think they are better than everyone else and have continental sized chips on their shoulders {which act as a multiplier for Gallic shrugging :lol:}.

At the end of the day, to quote Pat Travers, "People are people where-ever you go".

The South of France is supposedly wonderful, mind you. So wonderful in fact that a high proportion of it's population are actually English! Not too much of a surprise really as it is 'ours' by right of conquest anyway; they only nicked it back because we had a monarch more focussed on 'home turf' matters at the time!

One of my work-mates, who clearly gets paid vastly more than me, has a second home there and will retire there when the time comes.

Now this statement "Land of the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys", which I first heard from Grounds keeper Willie form the Simpsons which I have repeated multiple times since, and of course my constant references to the success of the Maginot Line, is the reason many who know me off of MT would be extremely surprised I was even thinking about France. To be honest I have never even considered a vacation there.


.

 

[Tez3]

Before you condemn all Frenchmen as cowards read this.

"During World War II, all male residents of the island of military age (a total of 124 men aged 14 to 54) fled to London to join Charles de Gaulle's 'Free French'
within days of the French surrender to Germany in June 1940. In 1946, the island as a whole was admitted into the select French 'Order of the Liberation'
for this feat and its residents (the 'Sénans') were exempted from paying income tax, a privilege they enjoy to this day."


good photos here too.
http://www.pbase.com/henkbinnendijk/sein


There was plenty of resistance to the Germans as well and I've seen many war memorials to those who were killed by the Germans in retaliation for the Maquis sabotage as well as those tortured and killed as restistance. The Butcher of Lyons, Klaus Barbie was a brutal killer and tool many French lives. If you look at where the Maquis were based you'll see it's mosting the independant parts of France that don't consider themselves as much French as they do of their homelands. The east of France, Strasbourg etc was practically German anyway so there was never going to be resistance there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquis_(World_War_II)

 

[Xue Sheng]

I actually do not condemn all Frenchmen as cowards. I was thinking just this morning how there were some awfully brave French men and women in WW II and then of course there is..or is it was.. The Foreign Legion.

However I do not have a whole lot of use for Vichy France or some of the, let’s say, interesting things the French government did since WW II that were directly related to WW II

 

[Tez3]

I actually do not condemn all Frenchmen as cowards. I was thinking just this morning how there were some awfully brave French men and women in WW II and then of course there is..or is it was.. The Foreign Legion.

However I do not have a whole lot of use for Vichy France or some of the, let’s say, interesting things the French government did since WW II that were directly related to WW II

The Legion D'Etranger is brave because of the Englishmen in it

No one with any sense has time for Vichy France, but I also think it goes back to what I said about France being made up of different countries, not all French are the same, the South of France suffered greatly at the hands of the North, look up the Cathars.

The Provencal are really nice, laid back people, warm like the sunshine they have. The countryside is wild and beutirful and it smells heavenly.

One of my favourite places, there's a house in this village that belongs to the Knight Templars, ( yes belongs not belonged!)
http://www.provenceweb.fr/e/var/grimaud/grimaud.htm

 

[Xue Sheng]

The Legion D'Etranger is brave because of the Englishmen in it

No one with any sense has time for Vichy France, but I also think it goes back to what I said about France being made up of different countries, not all French are the same, the South of France suffered greatly at the hands of the North, look up the Cathars.

The Provencal are really nice, laid back people, warm like the sunshine they have. The countryside is wild and beutirful and it smells heavenly.

One of my favourite places, there's a house in this village that belongs to the Knight Templars, ( yes belongs not belonged!)
http://www.provenceweb.fr/e/var/grimaud/grimaud.htm

Sooooo your saying the DeVinci code is TRUE!!!! :uhyeah:

I thought the French (king) killed all the Knight Templar he could find and the rest left. I did not realize they were still in existence and still owned property. I do know there has been much speculation as to what organizations they are allegedly involved in to this day.

Thanks Tez, I have heard some wonderful things about France over the years and some horrible things about Paris too. I did not know or look at it like a bunch of different counties though. And to be honest I have never been a big fan of their government, but then I do not know much about it anymore and haven't really paid much attention to it for at least 10 years.

 

[Tez3]

I don't think the French are fans of their governments, any of them, any more than we are fans of ours!
I'm not sure about the Da Vinci code but there's some strange things in Provence. It's that kind of old place that sort of resonates with history, it's romantic too!

 

[CoryKS]

I've been considering a trip to somewhere in Europe in the next year or two, but can't decide where to go. Had been looking into southern France, so some of the info here helps. The problem is that it costs so much in time and money that it's hard to pick one destination out of so many possibilities! Well, that and I'm going to have to wait until the TSA quits with their UFIA activity.

Also, I wish that certain countries would stop being a pain about the Google Street cars. I like being able to "walk" down the streets of foreign cities.

 

[Carol]

I don't know about Japan but in Hong Kong it was likely a sweet rice flour ball (sorry can't remember the actual name at the moment) with either sesame paste or red bean past in it.

The sweet rice balls are Mochi.

The soup was likely some form of ochazuke. Its a nori seaweed soup with a green tea base that can be either veg or non-veg (certain kinds of fish are added). Ochazuke is often served over rice but it can be made with mochi instead of rice. Lots of variations.

Nom nom nom...one of my faves.