So...Exactly what good is that knife in your purse?

[Lisa]

I really am confused as to exactly what good it does to have a knife in your purse? I came across yet another young woman that carries one in her purse "for protection"

My question is what good is a weapon that is inside your purse going to do you when you are attacked? In all honesty, how easy is it for someone who is being attacked to get that weapon out of their purse, let alone a young female with little or no self defense training.

 

[exile]

I really am confused as to exactly what good it does to have a knife in your purse? I came across yet another young woman that carries one in her purse "for protection"

My question is what good is a weapon that is inside your purse going to do you when you are attacked? In all honesty, how easy is it for someone who is being attacked to get that weapon out of their purse, let alone a young female with little or no self defense training.

If you carry a knife for protection, then you'd better have it in your hand when you venture into an area where you may be vulnerable. I agree, leaving it in your purse, or bum bag, or pocket when you're picking up your car at the the top of that `deserted' parking garage at 11p.m. is not at all practical.

Under circumstances like those, I always have my tactical folder in my left hand and a shuriken in my right. It makes no sense to carry a weapon if you're not in a position to bring it to bear for use the instant you see something menacing coming your way. But there's more to it than that...

If the young woman you mention, Lisa, is carrying a weapon that she isn't mentally geared to use—if she actually hasn't trained herself to be willing to slash or stab an attacker severely enough to dissuade them from continuing the attack—then she's very possibly in a lot more trouble having the knife on her person than she would otherwise have been. Because while she might not be ready to use it on someone else, there's an excellent chance her attacker has no such reservations. If she loses possession of the weapon, she could easily wind up getting stabbed with it herself.

And even if she decides in a kind of abstract way that she's willing to defend herself with one, a knife is a very ... personal kind of weapon. You can't inflict damage remotely, the way you can with a firearm, or even a baseball bat or motorcycle chain. You are going to feel that knife going into your attacker's body, should you actually use it in self-defense. When it comes to the point, will she actually be willing to do that?

My take on it: she's very possibly making a big mistake carrying that weapon with her, for just these reasons...

 

[KenpoTex]

My question is what good is a weapon that is inside your purse going to do you when you are attacked?

None. The same applies to knives carried down in the pockets where you have to dig them out and then orient them in the hand so you can open them.

In all honesty, how easy is it for someone who is being attacked to get that weapon out of their purse, let alone a young female with little or no self defense training.

You answered your own question. If you carry any weapon/tool for self-defense (pistol, knife, impact-tool, OC) it MUST be carried in such a manner that you will be able to access it quickly, consistently, and reliably under stress. If you can't, then it's going to be worthless.

 

[tradrockrat]

A weapon is only a weapon if you know how to use it as one.

An untrained person pulls a knife on me, they just gave me a weapon. That sounds a little macho, but I don't mean it that way, I just mean that I have a LOT of training with knives and am comfortable with them. I know how to use them, I know disarms, etc etc. If a woman pulls one out of a purse or a guy pulls one out of his pocket and they don't know what they're doing, the odds are pretty good that I'll be holding that knife soon.

JMHO.

 

[Andrew Green]

A weapon is only a weapon if you know how to use it as one.

True, and if you can get to it, but...

Perhaps the benefit to the weapon in the purse has little to do with it's function against someone, which, lets face it, is rare. But rather has to do with providing them a "feeling" of security.

Chances are they are never going to need it, and even if they did they probably wouldn't be able to use it, but if it makes them feel more secure is that not a benefit?

 

[KenpoTex]

Chances are they are never going to need it, and even if they did they probably wouldn't be able to use it, but if it makes them feel more secure is that not a benefit?

If they're incapable of using it either because of inaccessability, lack of training, or lack of mindset, then I would call that a false sense of security and that is not a good thing.

There is much to be said for confidence in one's abilities when that confidence is merited. However feeling "secure" simply because "I train in system XYZ" or because "I carry ___" is not conducive to effective self-defense.

As I've said before, a proper combative mindset is the most important factor...much more important than your technique or your choice of tools.

 

[exile]

Chances are they are never going to need it, and even if they did they probably wouldn't be able to use it, but if it makes them feel more secure is that not a benefit?

There's not much benefit in feeling secure because you have a tool you're incapable of using. It's like someone painting a fire extinguisher on the wall in their kitchen and then feeling secure because if a fire starts, they'll be able to put it out.

The big cost is that you are making a weapon available to someone who might not otherwise have had one, and who may be angry enough seeing his victim with it that he uses it against her. Unless she both has the necessary how-to knowledge and the mental toughness to be able to push the blade into his skin, and past it, deep into muscle, fat layers and blood vessels—and to accept the consequences that if she uses the weapon effectively her attacker may bleed to death—she's not doing herself any favor carrying it. And that toughness is not something that you can just make up your mind you're going to possess and voilà, there it is.

Of all the weapons someone can carry for self-defense, I think knives are among the least practical, not because they aren't effective—oh yes, they are effective!—but because to actually use them effectively you have to be willing to feel yourself deliver a potentially lethal cutting or stabbing injury to the attacker. And that's way too much for most people I suspect, and not just women.

 

[shesulsa]

I really am confused as to exactly what good it does to have a knife in your purse? I came across yet another young woman that carries one in her purse "for protection"

My question is what good is a weapon that is inside your purse going to do you when you are attacked? In all honesty, how easy is it for someone who is being attacked to get that weapon out of their purse, let alone a young female with little or no self defense training.

There you go, stealing my thunder again!

I always talk about this at self-defense classes. We go through purses to see what commonly carried items can be used as a weapon and how ... but one requires the time and freedom to access these items when push comes to smack.

I advocate carrying blades on one's person ... and having a few extra stashed in various locales. Of course, practice and rehearsal is required to adequate and timely access.

Ever see the movie Taxi Driver?

True, and if you can get to it, but...

Perhaps the benefit to the weapon in the purse has little to do with it's function against someone, which, lets face it, is rare. But rather has to do with providing them a "feeling" of security.

Chances are they are never going to need it, and even if they did they probably wouldn't be able to use it, but if it makes them feel more secure is that not a benefit?

No, it is not a benefit, IMNSHO. That is called false security and is the dope of the sheeple.

 

[Drac]

True, and if you can get to it

Yep...

 

[Shaderon]

All good points, there's no use in carrying a knife unless you know how to use it and have it handy, and who has a knife handy? If you have a knife "handy" walking round the streets isn't that asking for trouble? Women who do this are silly, a possible danger to themselves and need educating.

I use to carry a knife with me all the time, basically because it was so handy for gardening, opening boxes, cleaning my nails (I'm so darn feminine) and scraping dirt off things, but it would never occur to me to use it for a weapon, the act of picking up a knife to do so would feel wrong because I have no training with it.

 

[MJS]

I'm certainly not against someone carrying a weapon. However, I feel that they should know how to use it. If you do not know how to retain the weapon, you may as well hand it over to them. Second, being able to access it quickly is very important. It doesn't matter if it gives them extra confidence or not, the fact remains, if they have to spend time digging for it, thats akin to asking the bad guy to hold off on his assault while you dig out a weapon or put the things you may be carrying down, so you can be able to defend yourself.

Mike

 

[Lisa]

One of my daughter's friends carries a knife. Her Dad bought it for her for christmas.

I asked her what that was for, she stated "just in case"

When I asked her how she intended to get that out of that purse in a high stress situation (see she had to rummage through her purse to find it for me when I needed to cut something, took her about 30 seconds) she kinda looked at me realising the reality of what I was saying.

So I continued...on top of the fact that it took you 30 seconds to find it, remember your attacker will be trying to subdue you, he will probably have your arms.

"Guess it is kinda useless"

Yup. I told her she would be better off listening to that tiny voice in her head telling her that the situation she is getting herself into is a bad one and to get out any way possible BEFORE it escalates. Common sense things go a much longer way then a knife in a purse, IMHO.

 

[JBrainard]

There is much to be said for confidence in one's abilities when that confidence is merited. However feeling "secure" simply because "I train in system XYZ" or because "I carry ___" is not conducive to effective self-defense.

Everyone seems to agree that the knife carried in the purse is a mistake. It's the quote above that caught my attention. I was just talking to someone about this the other day. A person's martial arts training or what weapon they carry isn't what gives them confidence in their ability to defend themselves, it's their mindset. I knew a "90lb weakling" who had no martial arts training and also had no qualms about taking on half a dozen Asian bangers if they called him a *****. And he won pretty much every fight he got into! He also carried a knife, but never used it in a fight. He used it more to scare off potential aggressors. I'm rambling, but I guess my point is that this chick with the knife in her purse could defend herself using instincts alone (go for the eyes, groin, all that good stuff) if she didn't freeze up and had the confidence that she wasn't walking around waiting to be a victim, but a victor.
Just my two cents...

 

[KenpoTex]

All good points, there's no use in carrying a knife unless you know how to use it and have it handy, and who has a knife handy?

Um...lot's of people???

If you have a knife "handy" walking round the streets isn't that asking for trouble?

Nope, it's being prepared (presuming that "having it handy" means being accessible as we've already discussed). I realize that you're from England and as a result are very restricted in your freedom to defend yourselves (and *going out on a limb here*, somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of people that walk around armed 24/7). However, in places where carrying weapons for self-defense is legal, I think it makes perfect sense to do so.

Women who do this are silly, a possible danger to themselves and need educating.

Are you referring to the practice of carrying a weapon you can't deploy (like in the purse) or carrying a weapon in general?

Yup. I told her she would be better off listening to that tiny voice in her head telling her that the situation she is getting herself into is a bad one and to get out any way possible BEFORE it escalates. Common sense things go a much longer way then a knife in a purse, IMHO.

I definately agree that awareness is critical and that it's bi-product, avoidance is the most desirable outcome. However, there are times when we can't avoid engaging. If you could avoid every dangerous situation, we'd all be wasting our time training for those dangerous situations.

As I said before, if you can't access your tool of choice quickly then it is worthless. However, rather than telling people "don't carry that 'cause you don't know how to use it," (discouraging them from maximizing their options) wouldn't it be better to point them in the right direction to get the training they need to be effective?

 

[shesulsa]

Um...lot's of people???

Nope, it's being prepared (presuming that "having it handy" means being accessible as we've already discussed). I realize that you're from England and as a result are very restricted in your freedom to defend yourselves (and *going out on a limb here*, somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of people that walk around armed 24/7). However, in places where carrying weapons for self-defense is legal, I think it makes perfect sense to do so.



Are you referring to the practice of carrying a weapon you can't deploy (like in the purse) or carrying a weapon in general?


I definately agree that awareness is critical and that it's bi-product, avoidance is the most desirable outcome. However, there are times when we can't avoid engaging. If you could avoid every dangerous situation, we'd all be wasting our time training for those dangerous situations.

As I said before, if you can't access your tool of choice quickly then it is worthless. However, rather than telling people "don't carry that 'cause you don't know how to use it," (discouraging them from maximizing their options) wouldn't it be better to point them in the right direction to get the training they need to be effective?

artyon:

 

[Lisa]

As I said before, if you can't access your tool of choice quickly then it is worthless. However, rather than telling people "don't carry that 'cause you don't know how to use it," (discouraging them from maximizing their options) wouldn't it be better to point them in the right direction to get the training they need to be effective?

You are very right, Matt. Unfortunately the reality is that people go to one or two seminars and think they know what they are doing. Or take martial arts and think that is all there is to self defense. Its also a lot harder to get yourself to classes to learn self defense when your parent's don't think there a need for it, but will give you a weapon for your purse as a christmas present.

 

[Shaderon]

Nope, it's being prepared (presuming that "having it handy" means being accessible as we've already discussed). I realize that you're from England and as a result are very restricted in your freedom to defend yourselves (and *going out on a limb here*, somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of people that walk around armed 24/7). However, in places where carrying weapons for self-defense is legal, I think it makes perfect sense to do so.

Yes it's a highly uncomfortable feeling for me to go to a country where they carry guns, I know they know what they are doing with them, but it doesn't stop me feeling uncomfortable about it. I realise things are different in the US but that's the way it is here, people can be arrested for going out in public with a knife about thier person with a blade longer than a certain length here.

Are you referring to the practice of carrying a weapon you can't deploy (like in the purse) or carrying a weapon in general?

I mean carring a knife, intending to use if for self defence with no knowledge of how to, and having it in a bag where they have to "dig" for it. It ties up your attention while your attacker gets more time to subdue you

However, rather than telling people "don't carry that 'cause you don't know how to use it," (discouraging them from maximizing their options) wouldn't it be better to point them in the right direction to get the training they need to be effective?

But as was said earlier by a couple of people, if you pull a knife on someone who knows how to use it, and lets face it the criminals have more chance of that then non criminals who haven't been formally trained, then you are giving your attacker a weapon and asking them to stick it in you.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I really am confused as to exactly what good it does to have a knife in your purse? I came across yet another young woman that carries one in her purse "for protection"

My question is what good is a weapon that is inside your purse going to do you when you are attacked? In all honesty, how easy is it for someone who is being attacked to get that weapon out of their purse, let alone a young female with little or no self defense training.

excluding proficiency issues, the knife is fine if you walk aroung with your hand in your purse.
Sean

 

[exile]

You are very right, Matt. Unfortunately the reality is that people go to one or two seminars and think they know what they are doing. Or take martial arts and think that is all there is to self defense. Its also a lot harder to get yourself to classes to learn self defense when your parent's don't think there a need for it, but will give you a weapon for your purse as a christmas present.

I think this is a general problem with people's MA training which the case you've brought up just happens to throw in particularly strong relief. I get the sense that a lot of people focus on the process of training, to the extent of believing that simply by training and mastering the technical sideyou're going to be able to apply the skills you've learned—as though you were a kind of wind-up toy and going to classes, seminars and the like winds up that spring so that if it ever comes to the point, you're ready to act. But there's something else that's needed, which is something like will. You have to be mentally geared to deliver violent force to your assailant, to damage them to the point where they're immobile enough for you to get away from them. And it's not at all obvious to me that a high degree of technical competence is going to give you that will, that sense that when the die is cast, then you act to save yourself by damaging your attacker, possibly severely, without hesitation or compunction.

A knife multiplies all this problem by a lot. Because people aren't generally trained to use a knife, and even if you are, you need the ability to—as David Grossman would put it—desensitize yourself to its use. That requires something beyond just technical ability...

 

[frank raud]

I really am confused as to exactly what good it does to have a knife in your purse? I came across yet another young woman that carries one in her purse "for protection"

My question is what good is a weapon that is inside your purse going to do you when you are attacked? In all honesty, how easy is it for someone who is being attacked to get that weapon out of their purse, let alone a young female with little or no self defense training.

It's a talisman, much like wearing a St Christopher medal. While I don't suggest walking into a parking lot with a knife in one hand and a shuriken in the other, weapons access is key to the use of a weapon.