Slavery In The Prison System

[MJS]

Prison seems to be a hot topic around here lately, so I thought I'd start yet another related topic. In other threads, the slavery subject was brought up. I wanted to have a set place for it, so we don't sidetrack other threads.

So...is this an issue in the prison system?

 

[kempo-vjj]

I do not know if slavery is the word for it, but can't think of anything else. The prison system is ridiculous. How large can these things get. There is from watching the shows on TLC, a lot that goes on that the gaurds seem blind to. I think they should start a show like the movie Runningman. Entertainment and we could widdle down some of that population. If you have 20 years plus to do then your qualified. Your reward, staying alive and being out of your cell for the competition.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Eventualy as new prison are built and large tracks of land are preserved for prisoners to farm and work on. There will be no real pressure to ever release "problem" people again. There is sort of an indutured servitude vibe; and, when you consider racial misproportions and no effort to right the situation...
Sean

 

[michaeledward]

One needs wonder why the 'minimum wage' laws in our society do not have effect with prison labor. If prison labor is not mandated by the state (and may not be possible under the 'Cruel and Unusual' clause), why should laborers be exempt of the laws that protect other laborers?

Does not a suppressed wage system offer a competitive advantage to those industries that secure contracts utilizing prison labor?

 

[jetboatdeath]

Because as a prisoner they are no longer members of society. You gave up your rites when you committed the crime. We need to make the prison system more of a crime deterrent rather than a punishment. I know a few x-cons they said all they learnt in the pen was how to be a better criminal.

 

[Dave Leverich]

Stiffer punishments work for me. Although there would have to be some pretty set criteria.

As far as slavery in the system? Sure, is it a problem? Hm, it depends on what level of criminals are put with what other levels. If a tax evader is being kept with a murderer, yeah I see an issue. But there are levels of incarceration and they vary greatly, based upon the crime severity.

One thing I'd like to see is castration for sexual offenders (perhaps repeat offenders), statutory withstanding, some kid shouldn't lose it because his 17 year old girlfriend is a year younger etc. But violent rapists, pedophiles etc. Hey, I grew up on a farm, there's these really nice rubber bands that are quite cheap and do the trick.

 

[Shuto]

I think prison labor can only be compared to slavery if/when the "system" profits from their forced work. I don't think that is true in the US. It may be true in China.

What's the issue in requiring prisoners to help support themselves? We ask it of our model citizens.

 

[Dave Leverich]

Actually, I guess I need clarification.

Was the original question about Billy being a slave to Bubba? Aka, force to be his servant while in prison etc.

Or was it in regards to being forced to do labor while incarcerated?

 

[michaeledward]

Because as a prisoner they are no longer members of society. You gave up your rites when you committed the crime. We need to make the prison system more of a crime deterrent rather than a punishment. I know a few x-cons they said all they learnt in the pen was how to be a better criminal.

They most certainly are members of the society.

And how those outside the prison system treat those inside the prison system speaks more about the former than the latter.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Actually, I guess I need clarification.

Was the original question about Billy being a slave to Bubba? Aka, force to be his servant while in prison etc.

Or was it in regards to being forced to do labor while incarcerated?

Both forced labor and foreced rape happen under the State's Care.
Sean

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Maybe we should send them to summer camp with boondoggle making and sing alongs? Wish there was such concern for the VICTIMS of crime as for the victimizers. Whats the point here?

 

[michaeledward]

Whats the point here?

What a wonderful question. I'm curious if you would care to take a shot at answering it, with a bit of thoughtfulness.

What is the point of incarceration?

 

[Dave Leverich]

What a wonderful question. I'm curious if you would care to take a shot at answering it, with a bit of thoughtfulness.

What is the point of incarceration?

A very excellent question. I think often the crime doesn't warrant execution, those people we lock up.

Although, if you'd rather we didn't have incarceration, would you rather that the rapists, murderers, drug dealers and such, bought next door to you?

Or perhaps we simply said 'bad dog' swatted them on the head with a newspaper and told them not to do it again?

Or... we spend hundreds of thousands on attempted rehabilitation when often these thought patterns were formed before they learned right and wrong. These people who've done these crimes since they were pre-teens and continue to do so until they die.

Or we could just spend about $.50, and a pine box.

 

[michaeledward]

A very excellent question. I think often the crime doesn't warrant execution, those people we lock up.

Although, if you'd rather we didn't have incarceration, would you rather that the rapists, murderers, drug dealers and such, bought next door to you?

Or perhaps we simply said 'bad dog' swatted them on the head with a newspaper and told them not to do it again?

Or... we spend hundreds of thousands on attempted rehabilitation when often these thought patterns were formed before they learned right and wrong. These people who've done these crimes since they were pre-teens and continue to do so until they die.

Or we could just spend about $.50, and a pine box.

Am I correct in interpreting this response in this manner:

you are saying:

The purpose of prison is to keep the law breaker out of society, forever.

Rehabilitation is a false promise that will never be achieved.

The cost of keeping law breakers ostracized from the rest of society is an inequal propsition for a summary execution.
​

 

[Cryozombie]

What a wonderful question. I'm curious if you would care to take a shot at answering it, with a bit of thoughtfulness.

What is the point of incarceration?

Ideally? It is to isolate people who are a danger to society and the people in general from those they are a danger to, And to rehabilitate the people who can be rehabilitated and then released back into the Society at large.

What it SHOULDN'T be used for is punishment and imprisonment of people who do not pose a danger to society or people in general...

And while under the care of said facility the prisoners should not be provided freely what the rest of society has to pay for, otherwise you make the idea of a prison sentence almost lucrative. They should be made to work for their keep.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Ideally? It is to isolate people who are a danger to society and the people in general from those they are a danger to, And to rehabilitate the people who can be rehabilitated and then released back into the Society at large.

What it SHOULDN'T be used for is punishment and imprisonment of people who do not pose a danger to society or people in general...

And while under the care of said facility the prisoners should not be provided freely what the rest of society has to pay for, otherwise you make the idea of a prison sentence almost lucrative. They should be made to work for their keep.

I can agree with that.

But as devils advocate, with the way our system keeps allowing plea deals, reduction in sentence, early parole/probation to keep people OUT of jail (when theres plenty of people out there that SHOULD be in prison but are not), how much of an issue is this? I thing the argument that theres too many people loose who shouldnt be is a counter argument here.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think prison labor can only be compared to slavery if/when the "system" profits from their forced work. I don't think that is true in the US. It may be true in China.

What's the issue in requiring prisoners to help support themselves? We ask it of our model citizens.

Of course they profit.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

I can agree with that.

But as devils advocate, with the way our system keeps allowing plea deals, reduction in sentence, early parole/probation to keep people OUT of jail (when theres plenty of people out there that SHOULD be in prison but are not), how much of an issue is this? I thing the argument that theres too many people loose who shouldnt be is a counter argument here.

The more slaves the better?
Sean

 

[Shuto]

Of course they profit.
Sean

link

This speech by Anthony M. Kennedy, Associate Justice of th Supreme Court of the United States, states something different.

The cost of housing, feeding and caring for the inmate population in the United States is over 40 billion dollars per year. In the State of California alone, the cost of maintaining each inmate in the correctional system is about $26,000 per year.

That doesn't look like a profit to me, but I'll grant you that it might not be the total picture. Do you have any statistics to back up your claim?

 

[MJS]

In this thread, there was a few comments made that slavery is happening in the prison system. I started this thread to discuss that. In this thread I've seen a few posts that mention it, but I'm looking for more detailed examples of how it exists, if in fact it does. Simply saying, "Yes, prisoners are treated like slaves!" IMHO, is not a good example.

So..as I said in my OP...does it exist and if so, please site some examples.

Thanks.

Mike