SKH not in traditional?

Don Roley

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Gina Jordan said:
You are saying you don't need to understand To-Shin Do better because you view it as a seperate style. But then go on to say that you believe students must get to black belt in To-Shin Do before they can study Bujinkan martial arts.
So what do you think that is taught in To-Shin Do?

Obviously, something other than Bujinkan if they need to seperate by belt rank when they can learn it like that.

The difference if there is one from Bujinkan and To-Shin Do is that To-Shin Do actually teaches people to be able to use this stuff under pressure, and in my own opinion (and I know Don Roley is going to jump on me for saying this, and I'm sure he will say that i'm not in Japan, and if I was I would know that what I was saying was untrue but) the standard Bujinkan training does not.

You get what you asked for. :supcool:

Of course, it differs from dojo to dojo. But in terms of learning to use things under pressure, I am quite satisfied with what I learn here in Japan and have been urging people to try to follow the Japanese way of doing things more closely.

Hell I even went to one Dojo in England that was teaching Judo techniques in the Bujinkan curriculum. Brian McCarthy was in the Bujinkan for years and his sylabus which at one point was out to buy, obviously contained karate techniques.

Something that I have a problem with and have been screaming about recently in another thread. Some may be adding on Judo and such, but the Japanese do not and I feel that people should not do so. And IIRC, Norm Smithers started out under Brian McCarthy and is not very thrilled with what he learned now. It is a good thing that McCarthy left the Bujinkan IMO.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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It will always come down to the individual being able to use
their training that will determine if someone can be effective!
I have met martial artists from all types of systems, some I
believe would be incredibly formidable in a personal protection
situation and others, well they probably would never be able to
use what they know! Bujinkan specifically, I have met many
people that I thought were fantastic and had know doubt that
they could make their stuff work, so to speak. I have also met
others who probably would never be able to make their stuff
work! The To Shin Do practitioners that I know have left for
the Bujinkan but they all seem like great people and several
of them would fall into the first category with a few falling into
the second! The point is, no martial system Bujinkan, Genbukan,
Jinekan, To Shin Do, Karate, Judo, Modern Arnis, BJJ, Krav Maga,
Instinctive Response Training, Silat, Boxing, Wrestling, Tai Chi,etc can
guarantee that what they teach will always work! The real world
just doesn't work that way!

Brian R. VanCise
 

Deaf

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Gina Jordan said:
Deaf

I'm a bit confused.

You are saying you don't need to understand To-Shin Do better because you view it as a seperate style. But then go on to say that you believe students must get to black belt in To-Shin Do before they can study Bujinkan martial arts.
So what do you think that is taught in To-Shin Do?

Gina Jordan

Ummm where in the world did I mentioned that I believed that students must get to black belt in ToShinDo before they can study Bujinkan?

I never said that nor given any indication that was my thought so now I'm the one confused!

What do I think is taught in ToShinDo... Well that's easy, ToShinDo!

Does To-Shin Do contain
Musha Dori, Muso Dori, Ura Gyaku, Omote Gyaku, Taki Ori etc.
The answer is yes.

The difference if there is one from Bujinkan and To-Shin Do is that To-Shin Do actually teaches people to be able to use this stuff under pressure, and in my own opinion (and I know Don Roley is going to jump on me for saying this, and I'm sure he will say that i'm not in Japan, and if I was I would know that what I was saying was untrue but) the standard Bujinkan training does not. In fact it seems to teach little more than technique.

I will even go one stage further and state that many of todays Bujinkan practitioners have become no more than kata collectors.

Believe it or not... there are OTHER martial arts that teach musha dori, muso dor, ura gyaku, omote gyaku and taki ori etc. So I fail to see your point on this! It doesn't make ToShinDo special or anything if that is what you are trying to emphasize.

That is a generalized observation that is your opinion however I have to disagree with you to an extent. Sure, each dojo is going to be different and that is with ANY martial art. Some teachers are better than others. So this is a moot argument at best.

However I do happen to train at a Bujinkan Dojo which has people regularly going to Japan and training and let me tell you, these people KNOW how to use this stuff under pressure. And in turn, they regularly apply the pressure back at us in the dojo.

You are stating that ToShinDo actually teaches people how to perform under pressure... How so? I'm sure you will see that if you go to other ToShinDo dojos this might not be the case. See the first paragraph I wrote.


Teaching people to drop back into a "distilled" ( skh terminology for you ) ichi monji no kamae and yelling "WHOA" is not my idea of being able to "perform under pressure"!

Quite frankly your attitude sucks and I can see that you are pretty much opinionated about ToShinDo and Bujinkan so lets just end this discussion before it turns a bit ugly.

~Deaf~
 
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