SKH Books a representation of Bujinkan?

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

We're getting slightly off-topic here, but...there's just one thing I'd like to ask.

If Hatsumi sensei had never put out the "What Is Martial Arts/Budo Wa Nan Desu Ka" tape, would anyone ever have guessed that we're allowed to use shrimping to get rid of someone mounting us within the "boundaries" of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu?

 

[rutherford]

I personally think the moment you feel like cross training is going to help you... you completly missed the point of what your teacher is trying to teach you.
. . .
I think a lot of people practice taijutsu and don't study it. And thats the difference. They are trying to learn a few techniques so it doesn't bother them to go out and find a new set somewhere else. Too bad.

FN

I believe I understand your opinion, but don't support it and consider it wildly off topic.

You might find a thread actually dedicated to your topic, and restart the conversation there. Here's are two you might try, one in the traditional forum and one in the general Ninjutsu forum:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27337
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25671

 

[heretic888]

IMO I think that Shihan Haye's work (unless you were there) can only be speculation.

According to this fallacious logic, I can't know the details of the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor because I wasn't born yet.

Sorry, not buyin' it.

Laterz.

 

[Shogun]

Understand, I was just pointing out that your regal comments from someone that is actually cross training their taijutsu with Gracie Jiu Jitsu is totally bogus!

Take a look at what is it that you want out of your martial arts and stick to one... unless you plan to make a "Gracie Ty jItsu"!

I'm not saying Gracie stuff doesn't work for them, but a dedicated practitioner should realize that something like "Kukan" is not exposed in Gracie stuff. And something like tying yourself up around an attacker and not caring out your positiong and balance is is not exposed in taijustu.

sounds to me like you don't know a damn thing about either art so I'm gonna drop it.
If you wanna roll and see how much its like high school wrestling, drop me a line and I'll set something up, otherwise don't trash talk to people online who actually can and will fight .

 

[Cryozombie]

-mod Note-

Thread Locked Pending Admin Review

 

[Cryozombie]

Carry on.

 

[mpearce]

Okay, let me shed some light on all of this. One thing I would like to say is. I see why Sensei doesn't like the internet. This is just a bunch of grabage. It has no bearing on training. But if you want to know exactly what Sensei has told me here it is:

"I am the only one in the Bujinkan. The Bujinkan is me." This is a direct quote from Sensei to me. We were in his livingroom one day and I was asking about using the Bujinkan name for a website. So to answer everyones rants. NO Steve's books do not represent the Bujinkan. No one's do. Only Sensei's represents the Bujinkan. Period. Anyone and everyone else's are only that persons limited understanding and perspective of what Sensei does.

As to my ablility to say this. I have lived within a twenty minute walk from Sensei's house for the past 14 years. I train with him, have been to private parties, and even sang on stage with him. I have also studied traditional Japanese dance with Mrs. Hatsumi for over 11 years.

 

[Don Roley]

So to answer everyones rants. NO Steve's books do not represent the Bujinkan. No one's do. Only Sensei's represents the Bujinkan.

That is fairly obvious. But I think the question is whether the stuff you see in Hayes' books about the the five feelings while doing techniques are valid or not. I have not heard of a 'fire technique' from Hatsumi, so the answer is no. But I have heard him talk and teach the kihon happo- so that is more representative of the Bujinkan than a book that does not teach them as such.

I have seen people ask about what kind of feeling they should have while doing a technique. The teacher was a bit put off by the question. So I think that letting people know that the way things are taught in Japan is very different from what you see in the stuff by Hayes is a valuable service.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Mike,

It is good to have you over here! I hope that
everything is well with you? I think you are spot
on when saying that the Bujinkan is Sensei! It
is good to have your input! Anyone interested
in Shihan Pearce or Legare can visit their
website at www.shinkentaijutsu.com ! They
offer a wealth of information regarding Budo
Taijutsu.

Brian R. VanCise

 

[mpearce]

That is fairly obvious. But I think the question is whether the stuff you see in Hayes' books about the the five feelings while doing techniques are valid or not. I have not heard of a 'fire technique' from Hatsumi, so the answer is no. But I have heard him talk and teach the kihon happo- so that is more representative of the Bujinkan than a book that does not teach them as such.

I have seen people ask about what kind of feeling they should have while doing a technique. The teacher was a bit put off by the question. So I think that letting people know that the way things are taught in Japan is very different from what you see in the stuff by Hayes is a valuable service.

You are correct Don. In all the years I have been here Sensei has never talked about the feelings of Earth, Wind, and what ever. That is part of Mikkyo training though. Once when asked about this Sensei said "If you want to study that go to a Mikkyo priest and study that. I teach Budo." The only feeling that Sensei talks about with us is the Kukan. Kukan losely translated is Void, but that is not acurate either. We have been trying for years to translate that properly.

Sensei has never told me when the Kihon came about. He talks about it as if it has always been around. I would say that what Steve has done has value. Would I say it is acurate, no. Only because I am here with Sensei and even he says what he was teaching five years ago is no longer acurate. Does the art change, yes it is always changing. Do the basics change, very little. What has changed is the understanding of the basics not the movements. Does Steve show those movements acurately, not to the level I have been shown. That now brings it back to my first post. In that Sensei is the only one that represents the Bujinkan. Sensei even yells at and corrects the other Shihan on their basics. Because he sees openings and weak points in their movement.

 

[mpearce]

Thank you Brian, that is very kind. All is going well, I have been very busy so that is good. I hope all is well with you.

 

[Don Roley]

I would say that what Steve has done has value. Would I say it is acurate, no. Only because I am here with Sensei and even he says what he was teaching five years ago is no longer acurate. Does the art change, yes it is always changing. Do the basics change, very little. What has changed is the understanding of the basics not the movements. Does Steve show those movements acurately, not to the level I have been shown.

I don't really have anything to add to the above. I just wanted to point to it and urge others to read it again. It is a pretty damn good description of how I feel as well. Hayes' stuff is better than 99 percent of the stuff out there. I just can see that he is going in his own direction while some of us are trying to learn what the heck Hatsumi is doing and follow it as close as possible.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Does anyone know if it's true that Hatsumi and Akimoto Fumio were the only students of Takamatsu who were actually taught kihon happo?

 

[Shogun]

I have seen people ask about what kind of feeling they should have while doing a technique. The teacher was a bit put off by the question.

Are you speaking of feeling as in emotion? I was under the impression that there really shouldn't be any of that when doing a technique. emotion creates barriers.

 

[Fallen Ninja]

Are you speaking of feeling as in emotion? I was under the impression that there really shouldn't be any of that when doing a technique. emotion creates barriers.

Feeling is usually referred to when we train as a feel of a certain school. Not an emotional feeling but like a physical feeling.

:ninja:
FN

 

[Shogun]

Feeling is usually referred to when we train as a feel of a certain school. Not an emotional feeling but like a physical feeling.

ok. I wasn't sure if thats what was meant. Thats what I thought but It kinda sounded like he was talking about "feelings" rather than "feeling"

 

[Dale Seago]

Are you speaking of feeling as in emotion? I was under the impression that there really shouldn't be any of that when doing a technique. emotion creates barriers.

No, "feeling" as in "which elemental/godai feeling should be involved?"

 

[Shogun]

oh ho ho....so relating back to Godai....NO wonder Hatsumi was dumfounded.