What about all those great knife fights in the old gaucho movies like Martin Fierro? See 144:55 - 156:10:
No me digas que haya muerto el arte Argentino de Esgrima Criolla con facon y poncho.
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Sipalki Jumeog Bi kwan
- Thread starter Aurinegro04
- Start date
What about all those great knife fights in the old gaucho movies like Martin Fierro? See 144:55 - 156:10:
No me digas que haya muerto el arte Argentino de Esgrima Criolla con facon y poncho.
Just to clarify some of the points that Chris makes about Sibpalki from an historical context.
The term Sibpalki was coined by Prince Sado and was described in the Muyesinbo manual of 1759 (the predecessor of teh Muyedobotongji) to describe a specific set of 18 martial arts. It has unfortunately been used in more recent times to apply to many different types of Chinese martial arts that are being taught in Korea. The origins of these 18 martial arts are much older than 1790 and 1759. With several of them being documented in the Muyejebo (1598) and Muyejebo beonyeoksokjip (1610). These manuals and arts came about due to the Imjin war in which japan attacked Korea as a pathway to China.
So there are some arts that have a documented history in Korea of about 200 years prior to the MYDBTJ. Which then begs the question of at what stage do we call something Korean rather than Chinese or Japanese? ie if it has been assimilated, changed and adapted for use over 200 years is it now Korean? (these same debates occur with Taekwondo and Hapkido). Now the arts within the MYDBTJ contain Chinese arts, japanese ones (ssangsudo and waegeom) as well as indigenous sword arts (yedo was derived from joseon sebeop, as well as bongeukgeom).
many people argue that Korea had no weapon arts other than archery, however, that is somewhat misleading. There is archeological evidence of such and there are swords dating from the Imjin war period and even earlier dynasties that still exist today. As well as other weapons which also included firearms and explosives. Canons were used to great effect by Admiral Yi Sun Shin, and his efforts are one of several reasons why the Koreans eventually defeated the Japanese. There is also documented evidence from both sides that other weapons were used by the Koreans in their defence. The problem was that it was poorly organised and the training was very unsystematic. That is why after the Imjin war there was a renaissance and they started implementing better training strategies and took arts and methodology from China (particularly General Qi's Jixiaoxinshu military manuals) and Japan.
I train in Sibpalki in Korea under the masters in the video Chris posted and teach it here in Australia.
The term Sibpalki was coined by Prince Sado and was described in the Muyesinbo manual of 1759 (the predecessor of teh Muyedobotongji) to describe a specific set of 18 martial arts. It has unfortunately been used in more recent times to apply to many different types of Chinese martial arts that are being taught in Korea. The origins of these 18 martial arts are much older than 1790 and 1759. With several of them being documented in the Muyejebo (1598) and Muyejebo beonyeoksokjip (1610). These manuals and arts came about due to the Imjin war in which japan attacked Korea as a pathway to China.
So there are some arts that have a documented history in Korea of about 200 years prior to the MYDBTJ. Which then begs the question of at what stage do we call something Korean rather than Chinese or Japanese? ie if it has been assimilated, changed and adapted for use over 200 years is it now Korean? (these same debates occur with Taekwondo and Hapkido). Now the arts within the MYDBTJ contain Chinese arts, japanese ones (ssangsudo and waegeom) as well as indigenous sword arts (yedo was derived from joseon sebeop, as well as bongeukgeom).
many people argue that Korea had no weapon arts other than archery, however, that is somewhat misleading. There is archeological evidence of such and there are swords dating from the Imjin war period and even earlier dynasties that still exist today. As well as other weapons which also included firearms and explosives. Canons were used to great effect by Admiral Yi Sun Shin, and his efforts are one of several reasons why the Koreans eventually defeated the Japanese. There is also documented evidence from both sides that other weapons were used by the Koreans in their defence. The problem was that it was poorly organised and the training was very unsystematic. That is why after the Imjin war there was a renaissance and they started implementing better training strategies and took arts and methodology from China (particularly General Qi's Jixiaoxinshu military manuals) and Japan.
I train in Sibpalki in Korea under the masters in the video Chris posted and teach it here in Australia.
SahBumNimRush
Master of Arts
I admit I am no historian, so forgive me if my comments are incorrect or out of context.
It was my understanding that the Muyejebo (predecessor of the Muyedobotongji) was a trasnlation of the Chinese Ji Xiao Xin Shu. This text covered military tactics, formations, and field drills.
As I recall, the translation only really addressed the field drills with weapons and empty hands. Additional material of Japanese martial arts was also added to the text (Muyejebo).
I own a copy of the Muyedobotongji, and I honestly have a difficult time gleaning any information from it (probably due to the lack of historical context in which it is written). However, it is still my understanding that the manual is mostly about field drills with weapons and empty hands, not necessarily about a martial art.
I am interested in the context and usefulness of the Muyedobotongji, as well as Sibpalki, so any light you all my shed on this topic is much appreciated.
It was my understanding that the Muyejebo (predecessor of the Muyedobotongji) was a trasnlation of the Chinese Ji Xiao Xin Shu. This text covered military tactics, formations, and field drills.
As I recall, the translation only really addressed the field drills with weapons and empty hands. Additional material of Japanese martial arts was also added to the text (Muyejebo).
I own a copy of the Muyedobotongji, and I honestly have a difficult time gleaning any information from it (probably due to the lack of historical context in which it is written). However, it is still my understanding that the manual is mostly about field drills with weapons and empty hands, not necessarily about a martial art.
I am interested in the context and usefulness of the Muyedobotongji, as well as Sibpalki, so any light you all my shed on this topic is much appreciated.
Dear SahBumNimRush
i have a copy of the Muyejebo. Unfortunately there are no translations for it unlike the MYDBTJ, which also suffers from some mis-translations.
Anyway, yes the Muyejebo is derived from Jixiaoxinshu. But is not a complete copy. The Jixiaoxinshu is a far larger manual.
The arts in the Muyejebo are:
Dangpa (trident)
Jangchang (long spear)
Ssangsudo (two handed sword)
Gonbang (staff)
Nangsoen (thorny spear)
Deungpae (shield)
Like many other historical manuals these are presented in postures.
The MYDBTJ is rather unique as it provides the postures in a form (hyung, poomsae, kata - whatever word you wish to use) format.
The usefulness of the MYDBTJ is dependent like many things, on what you want to get out of it.
There is lots of useful and important information to me in it. But these things may be irrelevant to others.
I originally arrived at Sibpalki practice after 20 years of taekwondo practice (which I still do along with hapkido and sibpalki training).
Kind Regards
Damian
i have a copy of the Muyejebo. Unfortunately there are no translations for it unlike the MYDBTJ, which also suffers from some mis-translations.
Anyway, yes the Muyejebo is derived from Jixiaoxinshu. But is not a complete copy. The Jixiaoxinshu is a far larger manual.
The arts in the Muyejebo are:
Dangpa (trident)
Jangchang (long spear)
Ssangsudo (two handed sword)
Gonbang (staff)
Nangsoen (thorny spear)
Deungpae (shield)
Like many other historical manuals these are presented in postures.
The MYDBTJ is rather unique as it provides the postures in a form (hyung, poomsae, kata - whatever word you wish to use) format.
The usefulness of the MYDBTJ is dependent like many things, on what you want to get out of it.
There is lots of useful and important information to me in it. But these things may be irrelevant to others.
I originally arrived at Sibpalki practice after 20 years of taekwondo practice (which I still do along with hapkido and sibpalki training).
Kind Regards
Damian
