Shuri-Ryu

[shaolin_al]

I saw that a thread similiar to this maybe more then one has been posted before. I come from a background in CMA mainly and am looking to get back into martial arts. There is a Shuri-Ryu Dojo near me and I was wondering what people's opinions are who have trained or currently train in the system?

 

[chinto]

I saw that a thread similiar to this maybe more then one has been posted before. I come from a background in CMA mainly and am looking to get back into martial arts. There is a Shuri-Ryu Dojo near me and I was wondering what people's opinions are who have trained or currently train in the system?

well there are several systems that could provably claim that title.. but I would ask what is its linage and that will tell me a lot about it. so if you could find out something of its linage I would be able to maybe give you a clue... but the name " shuri Ryu" is not one I have heard of persay. my guess is its a Kobayashi Shorin Ryu dojo.. as their linage goes strait to Itosu and from there to Bushi Matsumura... but please ask them what their linage is and some questions about what style it is. If they say "Linage means nothing"... or " I don't know" comes out of the instructors mouth.. run .. do not walk for the nearest exit!

 

[cstanley]

Shuri-ryu is the style created by Robert Trias back in the late 50's early 60's. It is mix and match karate ( a little Shotokan, a little Shorin, and a LOT of Trias). He made up a bunch of his own kata and just generally had a ball making stuff up. On the negative side, I think people who do that muddy the water and dilute the tradition.
On the positive side, Trias was a good guy and got a lot of people started in karate. He formed the USKA, a huge karate organization in the 60's and 70's and his stable included everybody who was anybody in US karate in that day (Wallace, Bowles, Corley, Wren, Foster, Hayes, Abel and a bunch of others). Many joined his organization while remaining in their own ryu, so it wasn't just open to Shuri ryu. I believe his daughter took over after he died and she may still be heading it up.

 

[twendkata71]

the Shuri ryu style claims the Okinawan karate monicer. but Nowhere on Okinawa will you find an Shuri ryu school. Trias supposedly trained with a student of Choki Motobu. The Kata of Shuri ryu do come from several sources, Shotokan, Goju ryu,Shorin ryu. Trias changed the kata from their original. He did have a connection with Master Konishi (founder of shindo jinen ryu/Ryobukai). And Master Suzuki(seibukan international/Goju ryu), I am not sure if he actually trained with these individuals, but he did recieve rank from Konishi and Master Gima(Shoto ryu), Gima was a student of Funakoshi's.
Trias did have many connections to masters in Japan and this in turn helped his USKA grown. After Trias died in 1989 his organization fell apart.
In spite of the fact that for one, their were three different names/styles that he created(Shuri ryu,Shorei ryu, Shorei Goju kempo), most of the Shuri ryu stylist that I have incountered have been excellent
karate ka in their own right with sound technique. And their kata wasn't bad either. There is also elements of Hsing I kung fu in the Shuri ryu style.
Their still is no documented proof of Trias's teacher Tung gee Hsing existing or being an actual student of Motobu, and why he would since he was a Hsing Yi kung fu stylist. He supposedly trained in Tenshin Shinyo ryu kempo Jujitsu while in Singapore, with another Chinese person. And also trained in Judo.
Irreguardless of Trais's stories to make his style more legitimate, he did produce many very talend karate people. He did by all account have a great deal of karate knowledge, wherever it may have come from.

 

[cstanley]

Well, his knowledge was not very deep at all. He started out as a "Camp Hansen one-year wonder." He had some photo ops with some Japanese and Okinawan people, attended a seminar or two, and talked a good line. Had he really any depth of knowledge, he would not have needed (or wanted) to make stuff up and change kata. In his defense, he was simply too ignorant to know any better. Anyway, when I knew him, he was so fat he could barely get a belt around his waist and would be out of breath walking across a gym. Damn, I tried to be nice in my first post.:toilclaw:

 

[shaolin_al]

LOL Cstanley. I find all of this extremely interesting as I see there are mixed beliefs about the Trias system. One thing I have realized though is many systems of martial arts seem to have somewhat unprovable backgrounds. I read that Trias studied Goju Ryu and wanted to remove many of those kata from his system, however some of his students continued to train them and kept them within their own flavors of the system. Anyone else read this?

 

[searcher]

Just to add a bit to the above posts. Many that study shuri-ryu are big into the sport karate scene and they do pretty good, many world and national ckamps in their ranks.

The kata they perform are all geared toward competition.

 

[shaolin_al]

That makes sense. The sensei at this dojo told me that their school does not focus at all on tournaments or competing. I come from a background in traditional arts but it sounds like Shuri-Ryu might not be right for me. Thanks for the replies so far. Anyone else who studies Shuri-Ryu have info to share?

 

[Grenadier]

I trained in Shuri Ryu for several years, under two different teachers, and enjoyed every minute of it.

Twend wrote up a pretty good summary about the Shuri system, so I'll just add a few points to it.

The system was bequeathed to Robert Trias' daughter, Roberta, after his death. For one reason or another, the system split into two factions, one headed by John Pachivas, and the other headed by Roberta Trias-Kelley, and those two factions are still going strong. Robert Bowles now leads the Pachivas faction after Pachivas' death back in the 90's.

The kata in the system are a mixture of Trias' creations (Go Pei Sho, Dan En Sho), as well as ones commonly practiced in other systems (Naihanchi, Sanchin, Bassai Dai, Empi, Kanku Sho, as well as Nandansho / Nijushiho, Ten Sho, etc). The ones that are shared with other systems are still significantly different, but that does not dilute the learning in any way, shape, or form.

If anything, the kata tended to be more circular than their Shotokan equivalents, and gave me an interesting insight into things. Regardless of whether they originated from Trias or not, interpretation of the kata is strongly emphasized (bunkai / oyo), and the students are expected to understand the kata from both the performer's point of view, as well as the attackers' points of view.

There's a good bit of grappling involved in the Shuri Ryu training, too. It can certainly be argued, that Shuri Ryu is a well-rounded system.

The way I see it, if someone trains under a competent Shuri Ryu instructor, I see no reasons why he couldn't be just as good, if not better, than someone training in Shotokan, Wado, Goju, Isshin, etc. The chief instructors of the system are all excellent teachers, and I would have gladly stayed with the system, if there had been a school in my area after I had moved.

If someone can trace his lineage back to one of the chief instructors, current, or deceased, then for all intents and purposes, that's good enough for me. Trias left behind a solid group of strong Karate teachers (Roberta Trias, Pachivas, Bowles, Abele, Benson, Awad, Rabino), and the style continues to grow to this date.

Of course, this doesn't include the ones who were tossed out of the organization...

 

[Grenadier]

I read that Trias studied Goju Ryu and wanted to remove many of those kata from his system, however some of his students continued to train them and kept them within their own flavors of the system. Anyone else read this?

Depends on what faction... Those who continued to train in the Goju-Shorei system still keep the Goju kata in there, while those training in Shuri Ryu, stick to the core list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuri-ryū

 

[twendkata71]

The Shuri ryu people that I know personally are, John Jelks,Woodrow Fairbanks, Mike Awad, Roger Monk, and Ridgely Able(from his days as a USAKF coach with Don Madden.) I was throughly impressed by Master Jelks, Master Fairbanks, Master Awad and Master Able.
All I really have to say it the "The man makes the art , The art does not make the man."

 

[cstanley]

Actually, the traditional understanding is that the art, indeed, does (or should) make the man. Otherwise, all you have is a cult.

 

[Grenadier]

Well, his knowledge was not very deep at all. He started out as a "Camp Hansen one-year wonder." He had some photo ops with some Japanese and Okinawan people, attended a seminar or two, and talked a good line. Had he really any depth of knowledge, he would not have needed (or wanted) to make stuff up and change kata. In his defense, he was simply too ignorant to know any better.

I'm simply going to disagree with you on this matter. Most of the kata in the system are already practiced in other systems. While there are some subtle differences in the way they're performed by a Shuri Ryu practitioner, versus a Shotokan / Wado / Goju / Shito practitioner, that's to be expected. Kata such as Kanku Sho and Nandan Sho (their equivalent of Nijushiho) aren't exactly pieces of chopped liver, after all.

There are only a handful of kata that Trias created. None of them are lacking in substance, and each of them can impart some important lessons.

The way I see it, if he could perform all of the kata that he required everyone else to do for their ranks, then I would strongly doubt that he was "simply too ignorant to know any better."

Anyway, when I knew him, he was so fat he could barely get a belt around his waist and would be out of breath walking across a gym. Damn, I tried to be nice in my first post.:toilclaw:

He wasn't exactly in the best of health in his last decade of life. He was also dying of bone cancer, and fought the battle for years. Even after he knew it was terminal, he still got up every day, to teach classes, and carry out his duties.

In his prime, he was in pretty darn good condition.

In the end, those who create their own systems, are going to be judged not by how strong they were in real life, or how much money they made, but rather, what kind of legacy they left behind. To Trias' credit, he left behind an organization that has survived the times, continues to grow, and has produced many excellent martial artists. The chief instructors of the system are all respectable folks, and their martial arts skills aren't something to laugh about.

 

[Grenadier]

That makes sense. The sensei at this dojo told me that their school does not focus at all on tournaments or competing. I come from a background in traditional arts but it sounds like Shuri-Ryu might not be right for me. Thanks for the replies so far. Anyone else who studies Shuri-Ryu have info to share?

Shaolin_al,

If you get a chance, ask the sensei about taking a free class or two, and let your own eyes be the ultimate judge of whether you think you'll like it or not.

I did the same thing back in 1997, and don't regret my time training in Shuri Ryu at all.

 

[shaolin_al]

What you have said so far is very deep Grenadier. I've noticed any system that has been founded more recently always seems to draw a lot of haters. Even jeet kun do isn't respected by traditionalists but that still does not take away from the effectiveness of the system. I believe whatever system one trains that gives them peace and keeps them happy is worth their time,effort,and money. Ill keep you updated when I get a chance to check the place out. Thank you everyone so far for your replies!

 

[twendkata71]

You do make a good point.

Actually, the traditional understanding is that the art, indeed, does (or should) make the man. Otherwise, all you have is a cult.

 

[Shuri_Ryu_Phil]

Shuri-ryu is the style created by Robert Trias back in the late 50's early 60's. It is mix and match karate ( a little Shotokan, a little Shorin, and a LOT of Trias). He made up a bunch of his own kata and just generally had a ball making stuff up. On the negative side, I think people who do that muddy the water and dilute the tradition.
On the positive side, Trias was a good guy and got a lot of people started in karate. He formed the USKA, a huge karate organization in the 60's and 70's and his stable included everybody who was anybody in US karate in that day (Wallace, Bowles, Corley, Wren, Foster, Hayes, Abel and a bunch of others). Many joined his organization while remaining in their own ryu, so it wasn't just open to Shuri ryu. I believe his daughter took over after he died and she may still be heading it up.

Wow.No Shuri ryu is the same as Shuri Te .Trias just gave it a different name in the US.Shuri Ryu is known by other names in Okinawa.Also Hanshi Bowles is now the head instructor of Shuri Ryu.

 

[Shuri_Ryu_Phil]

Just to add a bit to the above posts. Many that study shuri-ryu are big into the sport karate scene and they do pretty good, many world and national ckamps in their ranks.

The kata they perform are all geared toward competition.

What do you mean by competition katas?Do you even know the katas we have???
Yes Shuri ryu has alot of good competitiors but if you took Shuri Ryu youd know its much more then soem silly competition Karate.

 

[cstanley]

Wow.No Shuri ryu is the same as Shuri Te .Trias just gave it a different name in the US.Shuri Ryu is known by other names in Okinawa.Also Hanshi Bowles is now the head instructor of Shuri Ryu.

Shuri ryu is not Shuri Te. Shuri Te is the old name for what was Itosu Kai and the ryu that derived from it. Shuri Ryu is Trias' creation, has many made up kata and chnages to the original kata. It is an American style and was intended to be.

 

[Shuri-Ryu-Phil]

Shuri ryu is not Shuri Te. Shuri Te is the old name for what was Itosu Kai and the ryu that derived from it. Shuri Ryu is Trias' creation, has many made up kata and chnages to the original kata. It is an American style and was intended to be.

Not exactly the same but extremely similar.