Should Modern Arnis Group honor other Modern Arnis Group's belt ranks?
Should Modern Arnis Group Honor other Modern Arnis group's belts?
- Thread starter Guro Harold
- Start date
It's a nice ideal, but the curricula now vary, and I assume standards do too...recognize the Professor's ranks, yes, but other organizations' ranks is an issue that has to be considered on a case-by-case basis.
I voted yes. As it was said, the material may slightly differ from one org. to the next, but as long as you're keeping it within the same system, the person should be able to keep their rank, but realize that there won't be a progression until they have learned the way things are taught at the new school.
Mike
Mike
arnisador said:
Agreed. I would consider it on a case-by-case basis. The problem is that we ALL have different standards. My example in this case would be Lisa McManus who was recently promoted to 6th degree. Follow this link:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21778
Not to try to trash talk her, BUT I saw her last year and the most I could consider her would be a 3rd and that might be a stretch. If Jeff wants to rank her as a 6th thats fine, shes not in my org. In the WMAA we have higher standards.
:asian:
arnisador said:
I voted it depends.
I would check the person out one on one and see.
Yet, as Jeff Delaney told me personally to my face, that I have no rank because I never tested in front of him, but could retest for a fee (* Weeks before the Professor died *), I would never honor his rank nor any rank he himself honors. If the person has true skill, the skill could be recognized, and respected, but the rank from that source, is a never, based upon his personal comments to me about him not honoring GM Remy Presas's Rank.
:asian:
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
Qualified yes...
I would think that we would all honor ranks awarded by Professor before his passing.
I think that for the "average" black belt rank we would all be willing to extend a hand regardless of the organization the person started in. Yes, curricula (curriculi? can't possibly be curriculums, can it? Arni?? ) vary, but a 2nd or 3rd degree OUGHT to be able to pick up the differences and make positive forward progress.
For those heading up a group, or otherwise embroiling themselves in politics.... well, there you have it. Dan, if I may pick on you (I'll buy you a beer later, I promise....) whether you would be able to "carry" your MA80 rank into another organization....probably not. Should you be afforded the recognition? Sure, and on my floor you would be. As to your 6th from Professor? See first comment.
(Please note that Dan is my buddy and I am using him as an example of my last category....).
I would think that we would all honor ranks awarded by Professor before his passing.
I think that for the "average" black belt rank we would all be willing to extend a hand regardless of the organization the person started in. Yes, curricula (curriculi? can't possibly be curriculums, can it? Arni?? ) vary, but a 2nd or 3rd degree OUGHT to be able to pick up the differences and make positive forward progress.
For those heading up a group, or otherwise embroiling themselves in politics.... well, there you have it. Dan, if I may pick on you (I'll buy you a beer later, I promise....) whether you would be able to "carry" your MA80 rank into another organization....probably not. Should you be afforded the recognition? Sure, and on my floor you would be. As to your 6th from Professor? See first comment.
(Please note that Dan is my buddy and I am using him as an example of my last category....).
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
Now, as to some other posts above, there are some claims to rank and title that are better left unmade.
I'll accept either!dearnis.com said:
I agree, someone with some time in any org. should be able to make the switch pretty quickly, so it would quickly become a non-issue.
arnisador said:
Agreed.
When it comes down to rank given by the Professor, there should be no question and no dispute about the rank itself. Some may question the skill of some of those promoted by him, but that still does not negate the rank.
When taking someone from another organization into yours, it is perfectly acceptable to transfer their rank and promote these individuals as long as it falls within the structure of the organization and the person is willing to accept this with the intent of learning the new curriculum. A couple of years ago we had this exact situation happen. A high ranking student of the Professor joined our organization but was unwilling to teach or promote our curriculum yet was looking for promotion. This individual is no longer part of our group. We were willing to meet in the middle, they were not. Politics and Ego (nasty stuff)
Belt Politics in the post Remy Era
Considering the fact that Jeff Delaney does not recognize any rank, even those from Remy, unless they also test in front of him, and the fact that he considers himself above all others by calling himself the Grand Master of Modern Arnis and the MOTTS who also consider themselves to be the Highest rank in modern Arnis when there are those who have higher rank that was given by the Professor (before his illness), I see no recognition of other organizations ranks happening any time soon.
The highest rank bestowed by Professor Presas was the Datu title.
As in the case of Tim Hartman who is a Datu and a 6th degree given by Remy, and others who hold rank, higher than the above mentioned groups, yet still they do not acknowledge them as superiors. As long as that mentality exists the lines are drawn in the sand.
So the question of accepting another organizations ranks is really only about politics and has nothing to do with ability.
Just remember, people will always look to see if your ability and rank are equal, no matter who's belt you wear. Good technique speaks for itself.
Sal Todaro (Cebu West-WMAA)
When taking someone from another organization into yours, it is perfectly acceptable to transfer their rank and promote these individuals as long as it falls within the structure of the organization and the person is willing to accept this with the intent of learning the new curriculum. A couple of years ago we had this exact situation happen. A high ranking student of the Professor joined our organization but was unwilling to teach or promote our curriculum yet was looking for promotion. This individual is no longer part of our group. We were willing to meet in the middle, they were not. Politics and Ego (nasty stuff)
Belt Politics in the post Remy Era
Considering the fact that Jeff Delaney does not recognize any rank, even those from Remy, unless they also test in front of him, and the fact that he considers himself above all others by calling himself the Grand Master of Modern Arnis and the MOTTS who also consider themselves to be the Highest rank in modern Arnis when there are those who have higher rank that was given by the Professor (before his illness), I see no recognition of other organizations ranks happening any time soon.
The highest rank bestowed by Professor Presas was the Datu title.
As in the case of Tim Hartman who is a Datu and a 6th degree given by Remy, and others who hold rank, higher than the above mentioned groups, yet still they do not acknowledge them as superiors. As long as that mentality exists the lines are drawn in the sand.
So the question of accepting another organizations ranks is really only about politics and has nothing to do with ability.
Just remember, people will always look to see if your ability and rank are equal, no matter who's belt you wear. Good technique speaks for itself.
Sal Todaro (Cebu West-WMAA)
arnisandyz
Master Black Belt
I think things are going back to the old way. It is like a Raja who has rein over a kingdom passes, the individual villages/tribes control themselves. Yes, you'll have leaders from one tribe "claim" to be the new Raja and try to take over but its not going to happen. You see, the individual tribes have had a taste of being a self-governing body and barring war,it would be difficult to convince them to follow somebody else besides thier own ideals. Don't think as the Professor's passing as an end, but a beginning. I don't mean to be sacralegious, but think of the Professor in the same light as Jesus, who died so that our sins may be forgiven. By the Professor passing, he has brought new life to all Modern Arnis Practioners.
In response to the thread...I would change word "honor" to "respect." I would respect any ranking MA practitioner and invite them to train with us.
In response to the thread...I would change word "honor" to "respect." I would respect any ranking MA practitioner and invite them to train with us.
DoxN4cer
Purple Belt
arnisandyz said:
Nice sentiment Andy, and well said.
TK
Tapps
Green Belt
I voted YES on this but I changed my mind.
If you have the skill it shouldn't be a burdon to demonstrate it if you want to join another group.
I have a problem with someone not recognising the rank Professor gave.
At worst, I believe, a group should freeze you at that rank until you meet thier standards.
Not recognising a rank give by the Grandmaster ... Disrespectful in my opinion.
If you have the skill it shouldn't be a burdon to demonstrate it if you want to join another group.
I have a problem with someone not recognising the rank Professor gave.
At worst, I believe, a group should freeze you at that rank until you meet thier standards.
Not recognising a rank give by the Grandmaster ... Disrespectful in my opinion.
Tapps said:
I agree with this.
Tapps said:
No matter how outlandish it might seem the rank was, I agree. Yet, with the first point you made, it realy should not be an issue.
Tapps said:
I agree with this, and support this type of action.
Tapps said:
Disrespectful in the least. I agree.
:asian:
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