Should Caffeine Be Regulated Similar To Other Drugs (Such As A Minimum Age)?

Kane

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Messages
589
Reaction score
17
Caffeine is an often overlooked drug. Indeed, it is the most widely used and least condemned drug in the world.

But the truth is caffeine is as druggy as any other drug. Cocaine and alcohol or no more druggy than caffeine (although some might regard cocaine and alcohol as harder more dangerous drugs). This can easily be seen in this chart in the wiki article;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug

As we can see, caffeine has no special place on the chart.

You can also get addicted and even die of overdose. Where as with marijuana there is virtually no way to overdose and addiction is almost non-existent. I have always thought of caffeine as the softest drug, but it seems like in many ways marijuana takes the softest drug award. Of course marijuana has its health risks, problems, and abuses but as a whole it seems like it isn't as dangerous. For more information on some of the dangers of caffeine check out the wiki article;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine

If you notice there are even pregnancy risks associated with caffeine that are eerily similar to alcohol. And yes too much caffeine can lead to intoxication similar to being drunk on alcohol or high off marijuana (although different effects obviously).

I'm totally okay with caffeine consumption and totally think it, like all drugs, should be legal. However caffeine shouldn't be considered a lone wolf safe psychoactive drug with no regulations. I think there should be a legal age for the purchase of caffeine products or any products with caffeine. This should perhaps be the legal age (in this case 18). And there needs to be a greater awareness for women about the risks of caffeine consumption during pregnancy. I'm not sure whether they talk about caffeine in drug awareness classes in schools but they should do that as well.

What do you think? Do you think there should be a legal age for caffeine purchase? Should caffeine be regarded equal to other drugs?
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
337
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
Why all nine year old kid should drink coffee and stunt there growth.
I would differetnly say YES should be an age requirement it is addictive.
Terry
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,628
Reaction score
448
Location
Winnipeg MB
Given our current cultural state, I'd say it's impossible.

Ok kids, no more chocolate or Coke, you have to wait till your 18 now...
 

Kacey

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
16,462
Reaction score
223
Location
Denver, CO
I agree with Andrew Green - it's too late. The same thing can be said for aspirin, which is also addicting, also capable of causing death by overdose, and also too widely spread through society to try and remove it now - and it has an age-specific illness, Reye's Syndrome which only affects those under 18), associated with it as well. Like caffeine, were it to be discovered today, it would only be available with a prescription.

The same could be said for alcohol; the only difference between ethanol (drinking alcohol) and methanol is that ethanol is a slow poison, while methanol is a quicker poison. The difference between the first two and alcohol is that there IS a drinking age... even if it is badly and inconsistently enforced - because drinking, no matter how bad for you it is, is socially acceptable in many places and cultures.

Attempts to regulate a substance after the fact - especially a substance so widely-spread as caffeine, have been proven ineffective; look what happened during Prohibition. Given that caffeine naturally occurs in so many common edibles, it would be incredibly difficult, and likely impossible, to ban it, or even place an age limit on it. Control of ingestion of such substances should be the province of the parents... unfortunately, too many parents don't control what their kids eat, drink, say, do, etc., leading to more and more, and more invasive, laws intended to deal with the issues that the parents can not, do not, or will not, deal with themselves. I see caffeine as one of those issues, and I don't think that legislation is the cure; I think that education in moderation is more likely to be effective (and I have my doubts about that, too).

Good subject!
 

BrandiJo

Master of Arts
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
1,603
Reaction score
14
id say its a lil late, and i loveeeee my soda and chocolate id hate to be the one to take it away from everyone else whos so in love with it
 

Cryozombie

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
9,998
Reaction score
206
The Punk Band "The Decendants" said it best in their song coffee mug...

"They Haven't banned my Liquid Drug of Choice, There's too many hooked, and they got too much voice"
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
540
Location
NH
Aspirin is far more dangerous and far deadlier than caffeine.

Yet, if I say the phrase "baby aspirin" you know that I am talking about a real product.

I'd support the regulation of parenthood before I support the regulation of caffeine.
 
OP
K

Kane

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Messages
589
Reaction score
17
Andrew Green said:
Given our current cultural state, I'd say it's impossible.

Ok kids, no more chocolate or Coke, you have to wait till your 18 now...

Well there are many sodas (such as sprite or 7-Up) that children can have instead of coke or pepsi. And there are also chocolates without caffeine (although such chocolates are hard to find). I am also not saying it should be banned for children to consume caffeine, it just should be equally illegal for minors to buy caffeine as with alcohol (correct me if I am wrong but I think some states only ban the sale of alcohol to minors).

I agree with Andrew Green - it's too late. The same thing can be said for aspirin, which is also addicting, also capable of causing death by overdose, and also too widely spread through society to try and remove it now - and it has an age-specific illness, Reye's Syndrome which only affects those under 18), associated with it as well. Like caffeine, were it to be discovered today, it would only be available with a prescription.

The same could be said for alcohol; the only difference between ethanol (drinking alcohol) and methanol is that ethanol is a slow poison, while methanol is a quicker poison. The difference between the first two and alcohol is that there IS a drinking age... even if it is badly and inconsistently enforced - because drinking, no matter how bad for you it is, is socially acceptable in many places and cultures.

Attempts to regulate a substance after the fact - especially a substance so widely-spread as caffeine, have been proven ineffective; look what happened during Prohibition. Given that caffeine naturally occurs in so many common edibles, it would be incredibly difficult, and likely impossible, to ban it, or even place an age limit on it. Control of ingestion of such substances should be the province of the parents... unfortunately, too many parents don't control what their kids eat, drink, say, do, etc., leading to more and more, and more invasive, laws intended to deal with the issues that the parents can not, do not, or will not, deal with themselves. I see caffeine as one of those issues, and I don't think that legislation is the cure; I think that education in moderation is more likely to be effective (and I have my doubts about that, too).

Good subject!

I agree that complete prohibition of any drug is never the answer. But I don't see the harm in setting a legal age. I doubt there will be any gangsters that would bother to traffic drugs to children and teens. It probably won't stop over-consumption of caffeine (especially by some pregnant women) but it will help somewhat.
 

Marginal

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2002
Messages
3,276
Reaction score
66
Location
Colorado
Kane said:
Caffeine is an often overlooked drug. Indeed, it is the most widely used and least condemned drug in the world.

But the truth is caffeine is as druggy as any other drug. Cocaine and alcohol or no more druggy than caffeine (although some might regard cocaine and alcohol as harder more dangerous drugs). This can easily be seen in this chart in the wiki article;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug

As we can see, caffeine has no special place on the chart.

You can also get addicted and even die of overdose.
The difference is, Cocaine takes a much smaller dose to fuddle or kill you. Unless you're constantly snorting No-Doze or pounding 6+ energy drinks in an hour, you're coming nowhere near the effects of alcohol or cocaine. (Probably why Caffiene is not grouped with Cocaine on the linked chart. It's off to the side in an entirely different grouping under the CNS umbrella)

Refined sugar also alters brain activity. Guess it's just as druggy as crack.
 
OP
K

Kane

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Messages
589
Reaction score
17
Marginal said:
The difference is, Cocaine takes a much smaller dose to fuddle or kill you. Unless you're constantly snorting No-Doze or pounding 6+ energy drinks in an hour, you're coming nowhere near the effects of alcohol or cocaine. (Probably why Caffiene is not grouped with Cocaine on the linked chart. It's off to the side in an entirely different grouping under the CNS umbrella)

Refined sugar also alters brain activity. Guess it's just as druggy as crack.

Yes, I never said caffeine is as bad as cocaine but there is still mind and health effects from caffeine that many might find harmful. If we think drugs like tobacco and alcohol should have a legal age then caffeine should have one as well. Alcohol and tobacco may not be as bad as cocaine but they still have legal ages.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think refined sugar is classified as a psychoactive drug ;).
 

Marginal

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2002
Messages
3,276
Reaction score
66
Location
Colorado
Kane said:
Yes, I never said caffeine is as bad as cocaine but there is still mind and health effects from caffeine that many might find harmful.
Like I pointed out before, it takes huge doses of Caffeine to get those effects.
If we think drugs like tobacco and alcohol should have a legal age then caffeine should have one as well.
That only follows if it bears similar risks. It does not.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think refined sugar is classified as a psychoactive drug ;).
It alters brain activity. Never said it was psychoactive. But since it changed brain chemistry, alters your personality, and causes health problems, it's obviously just as druggie as PCP... Right? Just stands to reason and all that.
 

Kacey

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
16,462
Reaction score
223
Location
Denver, CO
Kane said:
Well there are many sodas (such as sprite or 7-Up) that children can have instead of coke or pepsi. And there are also chocolates without caffeine (although such chocolates are hard to find). I am also not saying it should be banned for children to consume caffeine, it just should be equally illegal for minors to buy caffeine as with alcohol (correct me if I am wrong but I think some states only ban the sale of alcohol to minors).

It's true that you can find sodas and chocolate without caffeine... but the caffeine is what I drink soda for, and that's what most people I know drink it for. True, some states only ban the sale of alchohol to minors - but in many, it is illegal to give alcohol to minors, too; what's the point of making it illegal to buy if it's still legal to use? And as I said, I really think that education is the answer here; legislation has been proven historically to be ineffective. Look at alcohol; it's illegal for minors to buy alcohol, and in many places it's illegal for minors to consume alcohol - but that doesn't stop people from providing alcohol to minors, for a wide range of reasons.

Kane said:
I agree that complete prohibition of any drug is never the answer. But I don't see the harm in setting a legal age. I doubt there will be any gangsters that would bother to traffic drugs to children and teens. It probably won't stop over-consumption of caffeine (especially by some pregnant women) but it will help somewhat.

Um... who do you think they traffic to now? It doesn't take a gangster to sell a "controlled" substance - that's how underage kids get alcohol and cigarettes, and how housewives get crystal meth (among other substances). Unfortunately, making a substance illegal, or limiting access to adults, often has the effect of increasing interest - for the sport of accessing the substance ("watch, I bet I can get him to sell me beer without carding me") as well as experiencing the effects of it.

Also, from a practical standpoint - you would have to regulate every soda machine (never mind convenience stores and gas stations) that minors have access to - and in today's society, that's not going to happen; there's too much money involved.
 

MardiGras Bandit

Green Belt
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
100
Reaction score
6
Please, please tell me this thread was started with a pro-legalization message in mind. My mind will break if it turns out someone wants to ban caffine.

Either that or someone ship me a Book of Mormon, I might as well get something out of this thread.
 
OP
K

Kane

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Messages
589
Reaction score
17
Kacey said:
It's true that you can find sodas and chocolate without caffeine... but the caffeine is what I drink soda for, and that's what most people I know drink it for. True, some states only ban the sale of alchohol to minors - but in many, it is illegal to give alcohol to minors, too; what's the point of making it illegal to buy if it's still legal to use? And as I said, I really think that education is the answer here; legislation has been proven historically to be ineffective. Look at alcohol; it's illegal for minors to buy alcohol, and in many places it's illegal for minors to consume alcohol - but that doesn't stop people from providing alcohol to minors, for a wide range of reasons.



Um... who do you think they traffic to now? It doesn't take a gangster to sell a "controlled" substance - that's how underage kids get alcohol and cigarettes, and how housewives get crystal meth (among other substances). Unfortunately, making a substance illegal, or limiting access to adults, often has the effect of increasing interest - for the sport of accessing the substance ("watch, I bet I can get him to sell me beer without carding me") as well as experiencing the effects of it.

Also, from a practical standpoint - you would have to regulate every soda machine (never mind convenience stores and gas stations) that minors have access to - and in today's society, that's not going to happen; there's too much money involved.

So then do you think there should be a legal age for drugs? Since current min. age laws don't seem to work.

I agree that it is ultimately the parent's responsibility to regulate what there kids can do to protect them but many parents these days are very irresponsible. Maybe taking away the legal age will make parents more responsible, you never know.

Perhaps it should be up to private companies to decide who they will market their products to? In the past with tobacco it didn't work to well but if the consumers boycott the companies that sell drugs to minors, perhaps it might work. Maybe.
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,628
Reaction score
448
Location
Winnipeg MB
Marginal said:
Like I pointed out before, it takes huge doses of Caffeine to get those effects.

Just for fun, how much Espresso vs how much beer is it before I start becoming less functional?

Or how many cans of Red Bull before you'd prefer I not operate a vehicle?
 

Marginal

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2002
Messages
3,276
Reaction score
66
Location
Colorado
Andrew Green said:
Just for fun, how much Espresso vs how much beer is it before I start becoming less functional?

Or how many cans of Red Bull before you'd prefer I not operate a vehicle?
Hard to peg it on coffee. Redbulls, 6+ in an hour will usually bring on caffiene intoxication. (Could vary depending on one's sensitivity.)
 

Kacey

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
16,462
Reaction score
223
Location
Denver, CO
Kane said:
So then do you think there should be a legal age for drugs? Since current min. age laws don't seem to work.

I agree that it is ultimately the parent's responsibility to regulate what there kids can do to protect them but many parents these days are very irresponsible. Maybe taking away the legal age will make parents more responsible, you never know.

Perhaps it should be up to private companies to decide who they will market their products to? In the past with tobacco it didn't work to well but if the consumers boycott the companies that sell drugs to minors, perhaps it might work. Maybe.

Which companies would you boycott? It wouldn't work at all for illegal drugs, and the legal companies are so intertwined it would be virtually impossible to boycott one.

I still think that education is the key. Banning or limiting access to something makes it more popular, because it is a challenge. Only by truly understanding the consequences of a choice can people make a correct choice - and even then, some will choose incorrectly. As long as drug use (of any kind) is acceptable in society, people will continue to use drugs - "it's just a little pot, it's not like it's something dangerous" is a common, and very dangerous, attitude, which leads to increased drug use, both of pot and the drugs it opens doors for.

As far as alcohol, caffeine, and other legal mood-altering drugs, I see the same concerns, and the same need for education.
 
OP
K

Kane

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Messages
589
Reaction score
17
Marginal said:
Hard to peg it on coffee. Redbulls, 6+ in an hour will usually bring on caffiene intoxication. (Could vary depending on one's sensitivity.)

How many cola cokes would it take for caffeine intoxication in that case? I at one time drank two liters of cola but I didn't feel too different (maybe I did but didn't notice).

Which companies would you boycott? It wouldn't work at all for illegal drugs, and the legal companies are so intertwined it would be virtually impossible to boycott one.

I still think that education is the key. Banning or limiting access to something makes it more popular, because it is a challenge. Only by truly understanding the consequences of a choice can people make a correct choice - and even then, some will choose incorrectly. As long as drug use (of any kind) is acceptable in society, people will continue to use drugs - "it's just a little pot, it's not like it's something dangerous" is a common, and very dangerous, attitude, which leads to increased drug use, both of pot and the drugs it opens doors for.

As far as alcohol, caffeine, and other legal mood-altering drugs, I see the same concerns, and the same need for education.

So do you think that there should be a legal age for buying drugs?

I agree that education is the best way to stop drug use. For example if people looked at Heroin as a poisen then there would be little to no drug use when heroin is now looked at as the ultimate rebel drug.
 

Marginal

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2002
Messages
3,276
Reaction score
66
Location
Colorado
Kane said:
How many cola cokes would it take for caffeine intoxication in that case? I at one time drank two liters of cola but I didn't feel too different (maybe I did but didn't notice).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine

Side effects of caffeine

The minimum lethal dose of caffeine ever reported is 3,200 mg, administered intravenously. The LD50 of caffeine is estimated between 13 and 19 grams for oral administration for an average adult. The LD50 of caffeine is dependent on weight and individual sensitivity and estimated to be about 150 to 200 mg per kg of body mass, roughly 140 to 180 cups of coffee for an average adult taken within a limited timeframe that is dependent on half-life. The half-life, or time it takes for the amount of caffeine in the blood to decrease by 50%, ranges from 3.5 to 10 hours. In adults the half-life is generally around 5 hours.

Since colas typically have about half the caffeine of a cup of coffee...
 

Drac

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
22,738
Reaction score
143
Location
Ohio
Andrew Green said:
Ok kids, no more chocolate or Coke, you have to wait till your 18 now...

Oh yeah, That will really work...Now among all the other idiotic calls I answer we'll add respond to the area of X and Y streets for possible Coke and chocolate pushers in the area..ARRRUGGG more paperwork...
 
Top