Shihoken

SahBumNimRush

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Can anyone tell me about the form taught by Ki Whang Kim, called Shihoken. I've heard that it was taught to him by Kanken Toyama, and that it may be a version of Shisochin (a Goju Ryu kata). I remember seeing it performed at tournaments years ago. I saw this video the other day on youtube and it got me thinking about this form.

 

slindsey15

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Yeah, she's got some serious skill. The cadence of her forms are interesting. Different than how I perform Ship Soo and Rohai, but very crisp and deliberate.
My instructor has lineage to Ki Whang Kim.
What do you want to know about the form? I can ask.

In doing my own search into the form, I did come across this.

 
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SahBumNimRush

SahBumNimRush

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My instructor has lineage to Ki Whang Kim.
What do you want to know about the form? I can ask.

In doing my own search into the form, I did come across this.

I have never seen any other style practice this form, so I was just curious if this was a form that Ki Whang Kim created or if it was an older Okinawan form that may have a different name in other styles. If Sa Bang Kwon and Shihoken are names for the same form, that is helpful. Particularly since the article you referenced sites it as an Okinawan form. Do you know the name of the form in okinawan? or how it is written in Hangul?
 
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slindsey15

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I have never seen any other style practice this form, so I was just curious if this was a form that Ki Whang Kim created or if it was an older Okinawan form that may have a different name in other styles. If Sa Bang Kwon and Shihoken are names for the same form, that is helpful. Particularly since the article you referenced sites it as an Okinawan form. Do you know the name of the form in okinawan? or how it is written in Hangul?
I said I'd ask my instructor - and I will...just might be a week.

Ultimately I have the same questions you do.

I've been trying to figure out if it has other names - but no luck so far.

What I have noticed is the school I currently attend tends not to use the korean names for the advanced forms. They teach Chinte, Shihoken, Lo hi, Chinto, and Kan Ku Dai.
Ro Hi, Jin Do, and Kang Sang Koon are fairly common in TSD. Chinte is a bit rarer, and the version I'm learning has changes (the beginning looks more like Ji'in). I can't find any examples of Shihoken that don't connect to Ki Whang Kim. They're all tied to the Maryland/DC area. I'm in FL, but the people I train with learned from an instructor who was from Maryland.

If you look into Ki Whang Kim, he seems to have studied Shudokan, which is known for unique kata.
I wasn't able to find any mention of the form in Shudokan or Shorin-Ryu sources. I will say there are some distinct differences in students of this lineage. They tend to step in arcs like okinawans, and there are some interesting form differences in the pyung ahn and nihanchi series. This speaks to me of a guy who got affiliated with Tang Soo Do late and had strong influences from non moo duk kwan sources...OR a guy who was creative and liked to tinker. I find the Shudokan connection intriguing and quitely wonder if it's not a Rohai variant or a combination with Sip soo or something(but that's just wild conjecture)
Check out some of the videos here....Dale Thompkins studied under Ki-Whang Kim. also in maryland



 

gyoja

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They tend to step in arcs like okinawans
How do you mean. As in your lead leg moves in a crescent pattern as you step forward? If so, how are you taught to step?
 

slindsey15

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How do you mean. As in your lead leg moves in a crescent pattern as you step forward? If so, how are you taught to step?
I was taught 2 different ways by 2 different instructors. One way is the crescent. Feet nearly come together at you step forward in a front stance for example...like when doing low block or punch line drills. I'm not sure if it's connected...but this footwork was taught with the back foot turned out slightly.

I've seen versions where students tuck the back foot under the leading knee in stepping as well.

The other way doesn't emphasize the Cresent. The distance between feet remains much wider. Again unsure if connected...but this way they drilled both feet straight forward.

And fwiw...both systems argued their way favored balance if pushed while stepping. My honest opinion is they optimize for different things.

More like this (Crescent not emphasized)


Or this (Again not emphasized)

 

gyoja

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I was taught 2 different ways by 2 different instructors. One way is the crescent. Feet nearly come together at you step forward in a front stance for example...like when doing low block or punch line drills. I'm not sure if it's connected...but this footwork was taught with the back foot turned out slightly.

I've seen versions where students tuck the back foot under the leading knee in stepping as well.

The other way doesn't emphasize the Cresent. The distance between feet remains much wider. Again unsure if connected...but this way they drilled both feet straight forward.

And fwiw...both systems argued their way favored balance if pushed while stepping. My honest opinion is they optimize for different things.

More like this (Crescent not emphasized)


Or this (Again not emphasized)

Ok. In the front stance, we were taught to step in a crescent (not exaggerated), with both feet facing forward in Korea. I believe GM Hwang changed things progressively; of course eventually culminating in SBD.
 

slindsey15

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Ok. In the front stance, we were taught to step in a crescent (not exaggerated), with both feet facing forward in Korea. I believe GM Hwang changed things progressively; of course eventually culminating in SBD.
Wasn't able to get a solid answer on Shihoken unfortunately. Only that it was taught to my teacher's teacher, who studied under Ki Wang Kim and later Dale Thompkins during the 60s in Maryland. He knew there was another "tournament" version, but nothing on origin or hangul. Instructors notes only have the english spelling: Shi Ho Ken (extraordinary hand) , but the translation doesn't make sense to me. Spent all week searching on the internet and everything I ever found leads me back to Tang Soo Do Schools in the Washington DC/maryland area, which is where Ki Whang Kim taught.
I even tried emailing a couple of the schools to ask, but no one replied. I'm inclined to think he created the form, based on the lack of references anywhere else. If I were going to look harder - I'd look into Shudokan and Shorin Ryu kata.
 
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SahBumNimRush

SahBumNimRush

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Wasn't able to get a solid answer on Shihoken unfortunately. Only that it was taught to my teacher's teacher, who studied under Ki Wang Kim and later Dale Thompkins during the 60s in Maryland. He knew there was another "tournament" version, but nothing on origin or hangul. Instructors notes only have the english spelling: Shi Ho Ken (extraordinary hand) , but the translation doesn't make sense to me. Spent all week searching on the internet and everything I ever found leads me back to Tang Soo Do Schools in the Washington DC/maryland area, which is where Ki Whang Kim taught.
I even tried emailing a couple of the schools to ask, but no one replied. I'm inclined to think he created the form, based on the lack of references anywhere else. If I were going to look harder - I'd look into Shudokan and Shorin Ryu kata.
Thank you for inquiring up your chain of command. I have looked at all canon Shudokan and Shorin Ryu kata, and I cannot find anything with those sets of movements. The closest that I found was Shisochin kata, but I'm not convinced that Shihoken is derived from Shisochin.
 
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