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drop bear

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Ok, I don't know you at all, so maybe all that is true.

It certainly doesn't match my experience, but ok.

The guys I train with would quickly feed you your mouth guard while you waved your arms around like that and gave that much notice for your strikes.

When I'm watching your vids I can see them a few beats before they have any intent behind them.

He would get away with that more if he moved his head off line.

I did a video of a mate of mine who uses that very bombie style. But there are fundamental needed to make it work.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Your opponents chase hands a lot.
A wrestler may think differently than a striker does.

If you can get your opponent's hand/arm, you will get the rest of his body. You have to knock on your opponent's door before you can enter.

He would get away with that more if he moved his head off line.
This is why you will need to "chase your opponent's hand first". If you can get your opponent's wrist, pull his arm into you, you will know exactly where his head is.
 
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Tony Dismukes

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He would get away with that more if he moved his head off line.

I did a video of a mate of mine who uses that very bombie style. But there are fundamental needed to make it work.
Good footwork helps as well. Dominic Cruz frequently uses those wide looping punches, but he does it while cutting angles and moving offline.
 
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JowGaWolf

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I'll
but your using it to hit someone who has no obvious fighting skills at all, my little sister could knock him over, you can tell from his movement and reaction he is a comparative beginner.against someone even moderately skilled that wont land it's just a hay maker. I'd be three foot away from you before you could get that to the position I used to be, it's not the motion that causes him to freeze it's the fact he isn't any good

so the question is really have you got any students of moderate ability to demonstrate on, if not why not .?
Will a sparring video against an amateur boxer work?

As for why I don't have other students who can do it. The answer is that their training was cut short when I was kicked out of the school because I focused too much on fighting." There were 2 students who were many 2 or 3 months away from being able to use the technique.
 
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JowGaWolf

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Ok, I don't know you at all, so maybe all that is true.

It certainly doesn't match my experience, but ok.

The guys I train with would quickly feed you your mouth guard while you waved your arms around like that and gave that much notice for your strikes.

When I'm watching your vids I can see them a few beats before they have any intent behind them.
They would try. I don't doubt that. Depending on how aggressive they were I would just speed up the punches.

I can throw these punches much faster
 
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JowGaWolf

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Your opponents chase hands a lot.
Yeah they do, but not all of them. A few came from Sanda backgrounds. They didn't chase. But I also didn't use any of the big punches on them until much later, when I was training to compete.
 

oftheherd1

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And thus you develop the habit/muscle memory to always pull or intentionally misdirect your strikes, and the other guy never learns to take a hit or how to deal with strikes that come in naturally on line with follow through.

I'm not convinced this would be beneficial.

I understand your point, but how do you avoid running out of practice partners or newbies to work with, if you strike with full force and gleefully hit every opponent who fails to block properly?

Or maybe TKD is the only art that uses control in all movements?

I took TKD many years ago and control was very important and we worked on it constantly. Of course blocking was important as well, but if the block missed or was ineffective for some reason, the control of the attacker would prevent injury to any part of the body but the ego.

And there would be more work on the block and the objective was always not to be hit with a strike or kick.

Or maybe I am not understanding what you are trying to say?
 
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drop bear

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A wrestler may think differently than a striker does.

If you can get your opponent's hand/arm, you will get the rest of his body. You have to knock on your opponent's door before you can enter.


This is why you will need to "chase your opponent's hand first". If you can get your opponent's wrist, pull his arm into you, you will know exactly where his head is.

No I don't think you do for wrestling as getting his hands away from his body is why you are chasing hands in the first place.
 

drop bear

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I understand your point, but how do you avoid running out of practice partners or newbies to work with, if you strike with full force and gleefully hit every opponent who fails to block properly?

Or maybe TKD is the only art that uses control in all movements?

I took TKD many years ago and control was very important and we worked on it constantly. Of course blocking was important as well, but if the block missed or was ineffective for some reason, the control of the attacker would prevent injury to any part of the body but the ego.

And there would be more work on the block and the objective was always not to be hit with a strike or kick.

Or maybe I am not understanding what you are trying to say?

You do some heavy rounds and light ones.

When I do serious rounds with my coach I will quite often break up that round with other guys. So I only get bashed for a minute.
 

oftheherd1

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You do some heavy rounds and light ones.

When I do serious rounds with my coach I will quite often break up that round with other guys. So I only get bashed for a minute.

Sounds like a better plan.
 

drop bear

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They would try. I don't doubt that. Depending on how aggressive they were I would just speed up the punches.

I can throw these punches much faster

Which might be the issue that they might be flinchy.

Again my issue with my coach is if he turns it up I could get seriously injured.

And so am more tentative to take it too him than other guys.
 
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JowGaWolf

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This would all look much different if the other guy had a clue.

You should consider sparring outside of your student base/style for more accurate assessment of what works and what doesn't.

It seems to me someone with hands would catch you alot while you are being all telagraphy like this.
Not sure how much of a clue one would need if the punches were traveling at this speed. At this point the questions becomes. Do you want train your technique or do you want to prove you can hit someone with this force and this speed?

If you and I were to spar, would you prefer a friendly session where we both can learn and work on techniques or would you want me to just start at this level first? Then after we both lick our wounds, ask. "what did we really get out of it?"
 
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JowGaWolf

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Which might be the issue that they might be flinchy.

Again my issue with my coach is if he turns it up I could get seriously injured.

And so am more tentative to take it too him than other guys.
Not every one that I spar with is flinchy, including this guy. There have be times where he took to to me, by catching me off my game or focus. He wasn't hitting with pillows, so it wasn't like I could just be lazy with him every time we sparred. He gave me a black eye once because I lost focused and got lazy.
 

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I think a big part of this is the reluctance of people to hit and be hit. If my partner is not going to really hit me in the mouth... I will never develop the technique that stops it. If I am so afraid of being hit in the mouth, I won't stay in the pocket to develop my technique. Correcting the other guy on his lack of control, is easier than getting hit.

When I work with black belts, and we are being taught a defense from a punch... quite often I get the feeling that they are not intending to hit me. This makes me question my awesomely smooth and effective technique. So, on one of the repetitions, without informing the other guy, I just let him hit me. About 80% of the time, I feel like a Jedi from star wars... as I watch the punch go 8 inches to the left or right of my head or even stop 8 inches away. Which means that whatever dance step I was doing... it "worked." Until someone really tries to hit me that is. Many times it even takes a few tries for the other guy to actually hit me, even at a black belt level. The other thing I find amazing is that my awesomely smooth and effective technique... actually is not anywhere near as good as I thought it was. But, by working with honest punches, I can get better at the technique.

Many people train martial arts, with out actually learning how to hit someone. And they don't realize it. They can train years without realizing that they can't hit someone. They can do the mechanical movements and yell and break boards and hit bags... but hitting another person, they can't do it. Even if they think they can. (point sparring doesn't count as hitting for this point...) Think about what happens in most schools when one guy make contact with his punch during these type of drills. The most common response is "Oh! I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to hit you." And thats my point. If my partner is supposed to be working on a punch defense, then I intend to punch him. If I hit him, he did the technique wrong. (I don't intend to knock him out, or hurt him... just hit the intended target with enough force to effect the other guy, and it doesn't mean that I throw full speed either... I work at a level where the other guy can study his technique... but he is always getting hit) I check if he is okay, then we work on why he got hit.

If you train in a school where you never get hit, by an instructor who trained and never got hit... how are you supposed to know how to make your stuff work when people actually try to hit you?

This is why I love 1 minute bunkai.
They always stress authenticity of the attack. Proper penetration and not throwing short or off line in the strike.

 

Martial D

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I understand your point, but how do you avoid running out of practice partners or newbies to work with, if you strike with full force and gleefully hit every opponent who fails to block properly?

Or maybe TKD is the only art that uses control in all movements?

I took TKD many years ago and control was very important and we worked on it constantly. Of course blocking was important as well, but if the block missed or was ineffective for some reason, the control of the attacker would prevent injury to any part of the body but the ego.

And there would be more work on the block and the objective was always not to be hit with a strike or kick.

Or maybe I am not understanding what you are trying to say?
Who said anything about full force? I can see you've never trained at an MMA gym, where we make contact every day and still manage to not get injured at any sort of above average rate.

That's something I hear a lot from guys that don't train contact actually. There seems to be a belief in those circles that's pretty common that the human body is made of glass and will simply shatter of first contact. That's really not the case.

The worst part of getting hit is psychological, which can only be overcome by getting hit. People that aren't used to that 9/10 times simply panic when it happens, rendering all other training useless as technique flys out the window.
 

Martial D

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Not sure how much of a clue one would need if the punches were traveling at this speed. At this point the questions becomes. Do you want train your technique or do you want to prove you can hit someone with this force and this speed?

If you and I were to spar, would you prefer a friendly session where we both can learn and work on techniques or would you want me to just start at this level first? Then after we both lick our wounds, ask. "what did we really get out of it?"
Like I said to the last guy, not sure how you got to going full force from what I said, which wasn't that.

Also the speed here is fine, especially since you telegraph everything. This is the sort of issue you could fix with a better quality partner.
 
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Martial D

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They would try. I don't doubt that. Depending on how aggressive they were I would just speed up the punches.

I can throw these punches much faster

I'd have to see you spar someone that doesn't suck to really grep this.
 
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