Self-training vs. Formal training

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Don Roley

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I'm with Shesulsa.

To excell in martial arts you need to devote a lot into it. You need to also drop your ego and take instruction from another as much as possible. Those that think they have nothing to learn from others- don't. But not because there is nothing the others know that they don't- but rather than they close their minds to the wonderful lessons the rest of us get.

When you train on your own you can allow yourself to believe you are as wonderful as you want to be. But when you truely entrust yourself to a teacher you acknowledge that they will point out things you don't know and are not even aware of not knowing. Being shown that you know almost nothing can be a more severe beating than a physical one. I know that from experience. But the lessons you gain from having these things pointed out to you will help you to improve.

So, the question is whether you want to feel like you are good, or do you want to take the time and investment to actually get better.
 
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Calm Intention

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shesulsa said:
If you are not going to invest the required time to become trained, then why are you bothering, may I ask?

That ?? was asked already.
I guess if the same thinking was applied in other areas of our lives, we'd all become immobile and 'just do nothing'.
I've answered this, thankyou.
 
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Calm Intention

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Don Roley said:
You need to also drop your ego and take instruction from another as much as possible. Those that think they have nothing to learn from others- don't. But not because there is nothing the others know that they don't- but rather than they close their minds to the wonderful lessons the rest of us get.

Is this meant for me Don, or are you reading something in that just isn't so?
 

Grenadier

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Calm Intention said:
Is this meant for me Don, or are you reading something in that just isn't so?

It's a generic statement to everyone. Everybody needs to be reminded once in a while in order to keep their cups empty (so they may fill up on knowledge) and their minds focused on the training at hand. After all, if you go into a fine microbrewery with a stein that's already full of beer, how are you going to get a chance to fill your stein with the microbrewery's wonderful offerings? You're simply best off leaving any preconceived notions at the doorway, and coming in with a clean slate.

As for the time problems, CI, the bottom line is, that most folks do have rather busy schedules. However, despite these busy schedules, if there's something we really want to do, we'll find the time to do it. You have an wonderful offer from the local dojo, and a chance to get some good instruction from a proven establishment.
 

Flying Crane

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Calm Intention said:
I may....I make no promise I cannot keep.
I'm certain I would enjoy the chance, but at the same time, I recognize that at this time in my life, I am not going to be dedicating the requisite time to become either Aikido trained, or Sword trained;; we are talking a long time.

This is your chance to learn how to do something right. It is right there, in your own back yard. If you don't jump at this chance, then you are really not interested in learning anything and you are just gonna do it your own way, for better or for worse (worse, most likely). If that is your choice, then so be it. It's your life. But then why do you engage in discussion here? Nobody here is going to be convinced that your "self-training" will be fruitful or even safe. Everyone here has tried to guide you onto a better path. But you don't care. So why are you even here posting on this thread?
 

Swordlady

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Calm Intention said:
I may....I make no promise I cannot keep.
I'm certain I would enjoy the chance, but at the same time, I recognize that at this time in my life, I am not going to be dedicating the requisite time to become either Aikido trained, or Sword trained;; we are talking a long time.

Um...we only meet once a week (though we are strongly encouraged to practice outside of the dojo), so time shouldn't be that much of an issue. The question is, how badly do you want to learn a *real* sword art?
 

Cryozombie

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Swordlady said:
Um...we only meet once a week (though we are strongly encouraged to practice outside of the dojo), so time shouldn't be that much of an issue. The question is, how badly do you want to learn a *real* sword art?

I think He's scared you will chop his head off. I know I would be... Ive seen what you do to those poor, innocent water jugs.
 

Swordlady

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Technopunk said:
I think He's scared you will chop his head off. I know I would be... Ive seen what you do to those poor, innocent water jugs.

Nah...I'm actually quite harmless in person. ;) Just ask Chris...
 

Carol

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Eh, just bring some sticks along in case she gets rough. ;)
 

Phadrus00

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Swordlady said:
Please tell me that your machetes and cleavers are dulled. Twirling around one sword Conan-style is dangerous enough. Twirling around two sharpened blades is just downright stupid, to put it rather bluntly.

*Rob, looking suddenly guilty and caught, stops performing siniwalli with two machetes and puts them down, turning and walking off into the distance mumbling*

"Man... I was just having FUN... Friggin' sweet with two blades... I wasn't gonna hurt myself or anything.... mumble, mumgle, grumble..."

*grin*

I Pinch....

Rob
 
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Calm Intention

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I'm taking a lunch break out on the road and am at a remote...so real quickly.
I've quite a number of times conveyed my 'no formal training'(from the very beginning in 'greet and meet'), and also made some efforts to put those who 'are really worried', and not just having your 'own little attitude' problem, at rest.

But, seems thats not good enough, and the little diggaroos continue from some of you.

So, nice website(it is the best),, but like I said from the start, I'll be content to just read from now on.

Its also quite interesting that when I had mention some personal issues, there is no interest conveyed at all.

I will give SwordLady an A+ in that she knows how to conduct a discussion. I myself have faltered(I've made humbling comments like this a few times already, but again those are un-noticed by some of you)
 

Chris deMonch

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Swordlady said:
Nah...I'm actually quite harmless in person. ;) Just ask Chris...

Oh yeah, in training Jen's a real turtle dove. No worries though, woopins are usually handed down by myself or one of the other seniors.

As to Calm Intention, come or don't. At the end of the day it's all the same to us. I'd imagine people are more worried about your safety playing with bladed weapons than your personal problems because this is a weapons art forum, and no one here knows you. Therefore, people speak on what their feelings as to bladed weapons and people's (in this case yours) use of them because as you've said, you have no formal training and don't really know what you're doing. Any private issues keeping you out of the dojo are really none of our business. It's usually when people read a few books or watch some videos and go about touting how great they and their ideas are because Musashi also self trained or whatever that I get vocal.
I believe I read elsewhere that you're a gentlemen in your 40's, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and won't insult you with the "rolled up paper smack on the nose" approach I tend to use with the 13 year old backyard samurai that seem to be everywhere these days. If you're interested in JSA we've got a good group. However, if you don't feel like attending, that's fine too. One of the nice things about koryu is that we're not really under any pressure to keep the mat full.
 

Kacey

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Carol Kaur said:
Eh, just bring some sticks along in case she gets rough. ;)

I think that for those types of swords, you need a heavy-duty chain - a stick would just get chopped in half!
 
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Swordlady said:
Um...we only meet once a week (though we are strongly encouraged to practice outside of the dojo), so time shouldn't be that much of an issue. The question is, how badly do you want to learn a *real* sword art?

Seems some of the members don't think 'others'(outside the circle), should be.
I've often told people who had things blocking them from attending a dojo, that if you really want it bad, you'll train as much you can on your own, and not feel you must be in a dojo to do so.
I've abided my own advice and circumstances for quite some time, and frankly, some members here have an issue with that I'm certain.

I'm learning that just because some are trained, they still have things to learn also- but then I've always recognized that just because someone holds a belt, doesn't exempt them from having their own character issues.

*out of curiousity, did any of you think I'd show up and attempt to do something other than sit and pay attention on Saturday?
 

Chris deMonch

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To be honest I didn't give it much thought. On a given week I'm far more concerned with what my kohai are doing and what I'm trying to do than whether or not we have spectators, as I've said, if you show up fine. If not, that's fine too.

There's a difference between practicing what you've been shown in the study group while on your own and swinging a sword around without any prior instruction trying to noodle what feels right. One common thing I hear is that there are many paths up the mountain but we all get there. Well, no. Some paths are dead ends, or will walk you off a cliff, or whatever clever euphamism tickles your fancy to get my point across.
 

Swordlady

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Calm Intention said:
Seems some of the members don't think 'others'(outside the circle), should be.
I've often told people who had things blocking them from attending a dojo, that if you really want it bad, you'll train as much you can on your own, and not feel you must be in a dojo to do so.
I notice you quoted and bolded the part of my post about "practicing outside the dojo". Yes, I practice outside of the dojo - what I have learned inside the dojo.

So I ask you again: How badly do you want to learn a sword art? Do you even know how hard it is to find a genuine teacher of koryu in the States? There's one literally in your backyard right now.

Calm Intention said:
I've abided my own advice and circumstances for quite some time, and frankly, some members here have an issue with that I'm certain.
What we have issues with is that you insist that your solo practice is somehow equivalent to *real* sword training - when in reality, you are simply playing with swords. And NOT playing safe.
 
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Calm Intention

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Swordlady said:
What we have issues with is that you insist that your solo practice is somehow equivalent to *real* sword training - when in reality, you are simply playing with swords. And NOT playing safe.

??(the bold).
I think you are very wrong on that- I never made any such claim......copy and paste where, and I'll never pick up a sword again.

As for Saturday, the mood and spirit has been destroyed by all this miscommunication; there is no point to attend now- whatever formality that should have been maintained in this thread, was lost when the giggle innuendo, mock, and even subliminal like challenge inference, was interjected by some of you;;; and even I know that is beneath(way beneath) Aikido, and Sword discipline.
No one here admits their mistake except myself.
 

pstarr

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If you're going to allow some misconstrued innuendo prevent you from undertaking real martial arts training, you're simply looking for excuses. If you truly want to learn, quit jabbering about it and do it.
 

shesulsa

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As for Saturday, the mood and spirit has been destroyed by all this miscommunication; there is no point to attend now- whatever formality that should have been maintained in this thread, was lost when the giggle innuendo, mock, and even subliminal like challenge inference, was interjected by some of you;;; and even I know that is beneath(way beneath) Aikido, and Sword discipline.
No one here admits their mistake except myself.

Forgive me, but it sounds to me like you never really intended to show. A chance at observing what real sword training is? I have to wonder if you really have a passion for learning what budo is really all about ... or if you want to pretend to have a passion for learning what budo is all about.

From your posts and your final withdrawal above, I am more than tempted to believe it's the latter.

I hope for your enlightenment.:asian:
 

Charles Mahan

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Calm Intention said:
As for Saturday, the mood and spirit has been destroyed by all this miscommunication; there is no point to attend now- whatever formality that should have been maintained in this thread, was lost when the giggle innuendo, mock, and even subliminal like challenge inference, was interjected by some of you;;; and even I know that is beneath(way beneath) Aikido, and Sword discipline.
No one here admits their mistake except myself.

If that's all that it takes to discourage you, then it is perhaps for the best. Sword training can be very frustrating and is often discouraging. You most likely would not have worked out long term anyway, and short term students are more harmful to a dojo than they are helpful.
 
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