Seen this?

[troubleenuf]

Studies show that kids trained in Traditional TaeKwonDo (emphasizing discipline & self-control) showed an increase in self-esteem, lowered aggressiveness, improved social skills, improved values & lowered anxiety.
Kids that studied Sport, or Olympic TaeKwonDo, showed increases in delinquency, higher aggressiveness, lowered self-esteem, lowered values & increased anxiety.
Nosanchuk, T., & MacNeil, M. (1989) Examination of the Effects of Traditional & Modern Martial Arts Training on
Aggressiveness. Aggressive Behavior, 15, 153-159.
Trulson, M. (1986) Martial Arts Training: A Novel Cure for Juvenile Delinquency. Human Relations, 39(2), 1131-1140.

 

[Wey]

Thats interesting. I have only trained Tae-kwon-do for one class (kekeke) so I don't know how it is usually taught, but this seems to make sense logically.

 

[ATC]

Hummm....most studies really don't mean much. Just like there are studies that say vitamins don't work. Then there are all the studies that say they do.
:shrug:

How can they really study this? Who did the study and where? What were the numbers in each group? How big was the study group? How did they pick the people in the groups? So many variables to this that there is no way any so called study can be anywhere near accurate. How do you even measure the outcomes?

 

[bluekey88]

I'd be more interested to know how they delineated and defined "traditional" vs. "Modern." I'm at a WTf school that teaches Olympic style tkd...but with an emphasis on the tenets, character, etc. In other words, Olympic TKD done in a "traditional" fashion...don't see much delinquency.

I'd also be curious to know if that particular study has been replicated. What they found to be the differences between then "modern" dojang and the "traditional" dojang.

My guess is that the important variables that differed had less to do with Olympic tkd vs. "traditional" tkd (can anything that's only about 50 years old really be traditional?) and more to do with such factors as teaching style, curriculum and group/social expectations.

In other words, less of an indictment against Olympic TKD and more a study of what factors lead young martial artists down the road of higher self-esteem, etc.

Furthermore, that snippet you posted doesn't indicated methodology (how did they keasure such thigns as self-esteem and delinquency), sample size (are we comparing 2 dojangs, 100 dojangs, 5 students or 50 swtudents?? Makes a huge difference), I'm guessing this was not a true experimental study and just a simple survey....which leads to all sorts of problems in coming up with strong conclusions. But, then again, I don't even have abstracts to look at....just your inferences based on two citations.

Peace,
Erik

 

[terryl965]

For every study that says one thing I can show you another saying the opposite. Just like anything it is solely up to the person how they would like to act.

 

[troubleenuf]

This is what the guy down the street advertises... directed against me since we compete at a national level and he dosnt/cant. Its kind of funny since he has this on his website but then advertises his tournament on the same page?!!! I have never seen this "study" so I was just wondering if anyone else has?

 

[Jade Tigress]

I have not seen the study or heard of this before. I agree with what's already been said about it. The only thing I can think of that may validate it is, when studying "traditional TKD" it seems the focus would be on self defense. When studying "Olympic" TKD the focus would be on being the aggressor in order to win.

So if children are training in either traditional or sport TKD the focus on whether they are going to be the aggressor or not could shape future traits. As far as the anxiety and lowered self esteem, this is where it's crucial to have a good instructor. If the instructors focus is only on the win and not the well being of the child, then I could see that happening, and not just with TKD.

My son trained TKD for about 2 years. It was a combo of traditional and sport. His instructor was phenomenal and I have great respect for him. He was Korean and both of his sons competed nationally with great success. This mans focus was always on his students and their well being. You could just see the care he had for each and every one of his students, child or adult. His sons were two of the most well adjusted, polite, funny, good natured, skilled young men I have seen.

So, generally speaking, I can see how a correlation can be made, but definitely not hard and fast rules. As with anything else, it depends on what the instructor fosters in the student. Cobra Kai anyone?

 

[bluekey88]

A more interesting study would be to compare how strong martiala rts influences are compared to familial influence (can martia arts really make a kid who lives in a chaotic fmaily environment more disciplinced?) If so, when are these influences most effetcive (when the child is a teen and more likely ot be bucking the family rules?) If there are influences, do they last (will a student internalize this stuff and take it into adulthood or is it a temporary effect as long as the student is training?)

Those questions would be much more useful to know than the old tradition vs modern chestnut. I'd also love to see studies that aren't 20+ years old.

Peace,
Erik

 

[d1jinx]

I'd also love to see studies that aren't 20+ years old.

Peace,
Erik

My thoughts exactly. Those are dated 1986 and 1989. Think about all the changes in TKD since then. That the report is not accurate to todays time. Today, video games and TV lead to higher aggression and lesser social skills.

 

[mango.man]

First question I would ask is "Who funded the study?"

More often than not, you will find the results of the study will favor the opinion of the source of the cash.

 

[Archtkd]

The review below -- a decent read -- answers some of the issues raised in this string. It's titled "Psychosocial Benefits of the Martial Arts: Myth or Reality?A Literature Review," and was authored by Brad Binder
http://ftp.pwp.att.net/w/a/wabokujujitsu/articles/psychsoc.htm

 

[bluekey88]

Thank you. That was enlightening. So, it wasn't "Olympic TKD" that was the culprit...it was teaching just physical technique wuithout any kind of contextual explanation. No meditation, no tenents, no "this is when you use this stuff"....

An interesting overvuew to be sure, but not an indictment of Olympic TKD necessarily...as any Olympic style tkd school can (and should) teach the tenets and the responsiblity iof studying a combat art, etc.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Miles]

I've not seen the study (but it looks like it is 20 yrs old so may not even be applicable now). I am wondering if it is available on the inter-web?

 

[Gorilla]

This is what the guy down the street advertises... directed against me since we compete at a national level and he dosnt/cant. Its kind of funny since he has this on his website but then advertises his tournament on the same page?!!! I have never seen this "study" so I was just wondering if anyone else has?

It's 20 years old...It would have no bearing on what is going on today!!! My (non-scientific) observation is that Martial Arts help improve kids traditional or sport does not matter!

 

[miguksaram]

Studies show that 3/4 of all kids make up 75% of the youth market in Taekwondo, but only 50% of them make up half of that population.

 

[mango.man]

Studies show that 3/4 of all kids make up 75% of the youth market in Taekwondo, but only 50% of them make up half of that population.

Now that is excellent analysis the you can believe in.

 

[Steve]

Anyone who has been around kids, who has been a parent or a coach or a teacher, knows intuitively that applying themselves to something... anything... can result in the development of self discipline, self esteem, self-awareness and a strong work ethic. These are part and parcel to learning how to do something well. But it's not unique to martial arts, and I would argue that kids' martial arts programs focusing on the development of these things can miss the forest for the trees and actually DON'T provide these things as well as, say, learning to play the flute.

To suggest the martial arts do a BETTER job of teaching kids values than, say, playing soccer or participating on the debate team or the chess team or learning to play the violin is bogus. In my opinion, learning an activity and applying oneself is where the character development comes from. I'd also add that a mcdojo, where the kids are rewarded for nothing, is doing the child a disservice. When the bubble bursts, you will have created for that child a crisis of confidence.

I personally believe that sporting martial arts (or said another way, martial arts with a competitive element) are better for children than self defense oriented arts for self development. The reason I believe this is that children learn best by doing. People in general do. So, if you want to teach a kid to cook, you cook with the kid. If you want to teach a child to play football, you play football with the child. They learn to play the flute by actually playing the flute.

But for some reason, many Martial Arts operate under a completely different learning model. You don't learn by doing. I don't want to get into a kata vs sparring whatever discussion. That's not my intent. I'm speaking specifically to the stated "benefits" of martial arts, and my belief that the feedback that kids get from competition is extremely beneficial. So many life lessons can be learned in a positive, competitive environment. Giving kids a chance to kick each other. To use their skills, but also to be a good sport, control their emotions and their adrenaline, to learn how it feels to win and how to lose with grace. These things don't just happen. Competitions also help a child set realistic short term and long term goal setting.

All of these benefits are, I believe, lacking in many non-competitive programs. I don't believe that these things are learned by kids when they train in a style that offers no competitive outlet. Personally, if given the choice for a child, I'd pick a TKD school that actively participates in competition over a school that does not.

 

[Stac3y]

Anyone who has been around kids, who has been a parent or a coach or a teacher, knows intuitively that applying themselves to something... anything... can result in the development of self discipline, self esteem, self-awareness and a strong work ethic. These are part and parcel to learning how to do something well.

Q F freakin' T.

 

[StudentCarl]

I personally believe that sporting martial arts (or said another way, martial arts with a competitive element) are better for children than self defense oriented arts for self development. So many life lessons can be learned in a positive, competitive environment. Giving kids a chance to kick each other. To use their skills, but also to be a good sport, control their emotions and their adrenaline, to learn how it feels to win and how to lose with grace. These things don't just happen. Competitions also help a child set realistic short term and long term goal setting.

Amen! With appropriate coaching, preparation and mentoring, competition leads to a realistic understanding of one's skills as well as experience dealing with pressure and building authentic confidence.

 

[Miles]

Studies show that 3/4 of all kids make up 75% of the youth market in Taekwondo, but only 50% of them make up half of that population.

And 4 out of 3 Americans can't do fractions!